krooper13
Sonic the Hedgehog
Had it all and sold it, stupid economics.
Posts: 3,058
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Post by krooper13 on Mar 24, 2008 22:33:01 GMT
It's not price fixing in the strict sense as the price can still be altered by outside bidders, price fixing is where companies get together to make a price the same across all of their stores. Thus there is no input from outside sources.
I only created the list to stop some of these arguments, those not on it should not feel preasured to abide by it in anyway.
One thing that does puzzle me though is the idea that it shouldn't be used on higher priced items, surley the premis fits better on them than with smaller items? It could make a £100 odd difference on things like Smurfs 2, whereas on smaller items the difference could as little as 50p.
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Post by kungfukid on Mar 24, 2008 22:45:23 GMT
That's true, but to be fair, the majority of bidders on items that aren't every day ones are more likely to be spotted by members of the SMS community from forums such as this and smspower. Whilst it is not absolutely price fixing - there is a very big element of it, that's not really up for debate when there are 20 - 50 potential bidders that then don't bid. Over the long run that's a LOT of artificially low end bids - even 50p - £1 of a difference per item would easily equate to £1000+ per year that we are effectively saving ourselfs / doing sellers out of, were it an open market.
It's all very well saying that new members shouldn't join in if they don't want to - but it doesn't change the fact that they will feel pressured regardless of whether they 'should' or 'shouldn't'. I already know this because I've had more than one member already PM me and say that they agreed with me completely. When there are a large group of established members saying 'this is the way it should be', then new members won't want to rock the boat and will agree regardless of their true feelings.
As for the high value items - I couldn't disagree more. For these items, they are highly sought after and just because one of us happened to get a bid in the second they saw it is a bit of a petty reason to stop others bidding. Some have time to check ebay 20 times a day, others don't. It's precisely these items that will fetch high bids from bidders all over the world, and so they will end high regardless of any agreement between our members or not. I honestly don't think any member should feel that they shouldn't bid on items such as the ones in question - as I said they don't come around often, and it should be fair game. Other not quite as rare ones that may turn up a couple per month I can just about see an argument for, as one could get this copy, and another the next, but not these that might only pop up a couple of times a year. morally it should be whoever wants to bid the most, and that should be the end of it.
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krooper13
Sonic the Hedgehog
Had it all and sold it, stupid economics.
Posts: 3,058
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Post by krooper13 on Mar 24, 2008 22:51:39 GMT
Have you actualy read what I wrote on the thread? My idea was that you PM them not just not bid on it, if that's how you saw it then I can see why you're so against it:
"1. If you see someone whos name is on the list bidding on a SMS related item you PM them about it, see who wants to pay more then whoever has the lower amount leaves the item alone. - This solves the "I want it more" problem as you would end up getting outbid anyway so why bother. It also SHOULD keep prices down a little."
This way with say, Smurfs 2 ,if you were the first bidder at 99p with £150 and I came along and said I was planning on bidding £140 I would then not bid, thus saving you/stopping the seller getting that extra £139.01.
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Post by kungfukid on Mar 24, 2008 23:00:25 GMT
I've read it in full. I understand it completely. But what it doesn't take into account is the human condition.
A member might change their mind at the last minute and have a compulsion to get it. They might come into money - such as Phil - on the day the auction ends and decide they'd like to bid etc. They should be entitled to be human and change their mind. The current system doesn't take account of that.
Plus, people are not always honest. They may state a higher amount than what they legitimitely are planning to bid and win it at a lower price because nobody bids against them - I've read about that in the ebay tags rules too, but it won't stop people doing it. In those cases, if I were a seller I would be furious - and legitimitely so if it was a game such as 'transbot cart only'! As with the new members pressure - it's all very well telling people to be honest, but it's inevitable that some won't regardless of that. And the simple fact of the matter is that if the item finishes lower - you'll never find out.
I can see we're going to have to agree to disagree. However what is factual is that in open bidding it is fair to all, with this system it IS unfair to the sellers who are losing enough to fees as it is without a large group of people costing them even more money. The ebay tags is a selfish system - not that it's always wrong to be selfish because it isn't, but it should be seen for what it is.
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krooper13
Sonic the Hedgehog
Had it all and sold it, stupid economics.
Posts: 3,058
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Post by krooper13 on Mar 24, 2008 23:06:55 GMT
I agree with almost all of what you said, I guess I'm just putting too much trust in people. I never wanted the tags to cause arguments or put off new mebers, this is a great community and I wouldn't want to harm it.
The one thing I would disagree with is the idea that open bidding is fair to all, it is still a seller based view. The seller can chosse to start it at whatever price they wish as well as the option to shill.
I think my inherant problem is my mistrust of business and faith in the consumer.
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Post by kungfukid on Mar 24, 2008 23:12:11 GMT
Oh, of course, and it's sellers like RB that spoil it for all. But when sellers are starting uncommon items at 99p or £1.99, it's a little unfair to the ones who are legitimately just trying to make a few bucks. If they end for that price, it wouldn't be too long before they'd give up and then we wouldn't even see their stuff on ebay... The system itself is not a bad thing - as I said the example about the slightly less common games / hardware that might pop up perhaps a couple of times a month or a few times a year a la champ hockey, spinball, buggy run, AKIMW etc. where one member bids on this one, the other bids on the next one etc. It's just IMO that whilst it means well, I think it's a little flawed in the areas I mentioned. Just my opinion mind!
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Post by rupert on Mar 25, 2008 7:34:46 GMT
Other not quite as rare ones that may turn up a couple per month I can just about see an argument for, as one could get this copy, and another the next, but not these that might only pop up a couple of times a year. morally it should be whoever wants to bid the most, and that should be the end of it. This part right here is what I think is good about the tags system. But I had this sort of thing set up with Sega_aus and a couple of otheres on Aus Double packs, we were taking it in turns to get them as we had started bidding the prices up between the few of us. This was befor all the tags list thing started.
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Post by ninjabearhug on Mar 25, 2008 19:23:15 GMT
I don't get what all the fuss is about - if you want to be on the ebay tags list, go on it, if you don't, don't. Easy as.
I wouldn't join an ebay tags list for the MD because i will go up against anyone for an MD item i really want. I joined the SMS one because SMS is a secondary collection for me, thats not that many items that pop up that i'm mega interested in, but when i do see something i'd like to get it cheap as possible so i have plenty of money left over for MD stuff.
Personally i don't think there's any pressure for new members, if everyone was on the list then fair enough, but the majority of members aren't on it.
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trashitall
Alis
No reason to live but like it in that way
Posts: 338
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Post by trashitall on Mar 25, 2008 21:28:09 GMT
To conclude: Can I bid on the "transbot card" or shall I contact all the ebay tag members first?
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Post by Totoro on Mar 25, 2008 21:44:49 GMT
I don't get what all the fuss is about - if you want to be on the ebay tags list, go on it, if you don't, don't. Easy as. Agreed. Anyway if I do notice anyone from here on Ebay who has bid already on something I tend not to go for it so it doesn't really matter if I'm on the list or not. At least being off it allows me to mainly live in ignorance as I don't know most people's tags so I can bid for whatever I want.
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Post by playgeneration on Mar 25, 2008 21:48:47 GMT
To conclude: Can I bid on the "transbot card" or shall I contact all the ebay tag members first? Might aswell bid on it I say
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