Michael Jackson's Moonwalker... Impossible?

[brian]

Long story short and many expletives withheld,
Has anybody here ever beaten Level 6-2 of Michael Jackson's Moonwalker?

I thought it was cool when I got to level 6-1 and realized there was an extra level in the SMS version rather than it omitting a level like I figured it would... but... it's impossible, 6-1 was unnecessarily difficult, 6-2 is impossible the best I can gather, one hour and many save states later I only landed about 3 consecutive hits, and if there's a 6-3 I don't wanna know what it is!

[Transatlantic Foe]

6-2 is the final stage and yeah, it's hard. But definitely possible. Can't remember the strategy I used back in the day but it probably involved weaving - because the shots were homing and I think you can confuse them by moving one way then the other.

[brian]

The homing shots I don't doubt can be dodged with practice, but only 1 gun window opens at a time, and it's NEVER one in front of you, generally one that's farthest away from you, couple that with your shots moving so slowly...

Like I said, I used Save States, something I generally abhor, but I really wanted to see the ending to see what else may be different from the Genesis version, but I could NOT beat that level.
First I just saved at the screen that showed the level number and used the re-loads as a method for infinite lives. After dying MANY times, often not landing a single hit, I decided to save after every hit I landed and reload after taking a hit. I timed it, after 1 hour I had to give up or I was going to break something. I was up to 3 hits. Each time a different gun. I'm not sure if you have to destroy each gun, or just land a total number of hits and they all die... but the point is, 1 hour / 3 Hits.
That's 1 hour of the save-reload repeatedly tactic. Not to mention the 2 continues I used trying to win legitimately before employing the save load tactic on my second last life. Then all the lives I tried playing with the save state being used as infinite lives. So I'd say I sunk an 90+ minutes into 6-2.

As I said, a gun near you will NOT open, I spent a few lives testing that theory out. If you stay on the left, the rightmost gun will stay open, and vice versa. If you hover around the middle, the middle guns will not open and you are MUCH more prone to be hit. If you hang left, and wait for the gun on the right to open (or vice versa),between the speed of you ship and your shots, you CANNOT swing over in time to hit it. I experimented MANY times with this tactic before realizing it was definitely futile. The other option, hanging around the middle so you only have to pass one gun to get to one that opened, you are a sitting duck for the shots, or rather if you dodge a shot, you dodge the gun you're trying to hit, if you trade hits, you WILL die before he does, because again the speed of your shots. You practically have to have shot before the door opens, because by the time you swing over, you're already to late, and it you wait in front of it, it won't open.

Maybe it's a 60Hz thing... Most of the songs sounded okay to me, but BAD was definitely playing to fast...
Let's see if it's playable in 50Hz and try again (and see if the songs sound better)

[brian]

Wow. 10 minutes of playing 50Hz and I beat it.
And yes, this game really should be played in 50Hz, after listening to just Smooth Criminal from level 1 in 50Hz, then 60Hz... it's like flipping your 12" to 45 speed.

This upsets me and kind of makes me question my SMS collection...
Must I mod my system for a 50Hz/60Hz switch? This 1 game at least, goes from unplayable to playable. I'm pretty good at games, with a little practice I can get through just about anything but... well I guess you've read my above attempts at beating this game in 60Hz.
This made me wonder, how many other games "should" be played in 50Hz, let alone the one's that MUST be for timing/glitch issues.
Inversely some games, like Outrun, Space Harrier, Sonic or Rambo, I can't imagine playing in 50Hz.

Seems like no matter what side of the pond your from you get screwed with some titles...
This is most unsettling...

[edwithmj]

Haven't played this game in ages but I remember I did complete it - and this was before I'd ever heard of emulators.

[Maxim]

Sept 29, 2014 1:42:21 GMT brian said:

beat it..

[brian]

I'd like to know if anybody living in NORTH AMERICA playing the game at 60Hz ever beat this back in the day.

Seriously, load it up in an emulator sometime and play it at 60Hz.
After hearing Alvin and the Chipmunk's rendition of classic Michael Jackson songs, see if you can beat 6-2.

[Retrobob]

I do sometimes wonder if some of the games that were only released in PAL territores were designed knowing that was going to be the case (later ones especially).

[brian]

I hate to say it, but this REALLY upsets me and makes me question whether I should continue to collect or not.
What's the point if every game I get is going to be a crap shoot as to whether it will play "properly"? IE, Disregarding later games that glitch in 60Hz, because even though Moonwalker doesn't glitch or crash or anything, the songs sound ridiculous, and the last level is nigh unplayable.
What other games are going to do this to me? If not for the fact that the songs are playing way too fast you'd never realize the game is playing in way it was not intended to be played. Even though it was sold, advertised, marketed in North America, it clearly is NOT intended to be played at 60Hz.
Michael Jackson himself (who supposedly had input on the game) would have said something along the lines of "Why are my songs playing so fast, that's ignorant!"
Bottom line, it was marketed for a system that couldn't play it properly.
It's too late to go all "Better Business Bureau" on them, but it's not too late to stop buying games and focus on a different system.

I know and have the games I grew up playing and enjoyed, and I think I'll stick with them. From now on, when I buy a game, it'll be for a system I KNOW will be playing it "properly".

Damn you Moonwalker for destroying my happy mental image of my beloved Sega Master System.
But also Thank You for making me realize some of these games aren't unnecessarily difficult, they're just programmed wrong.

[Retrobob]

Don't give up mate, if in doubt play at 60.

You should think yourself lucky, try having gwrown up playing slow games with borders :-(

[Transatlantic Foe]

If the music is too fast then yeah, the game is intended for 50 Hz. A load of games will have received PAL optimisations, meaning you'll just have borders at 50 Hz rather than slower speed and music. However most later SMS games will have been made with PAL in mind so playing at 60 Hz is nuts because the music will be sped up and everything moves far quicker than intended.

Might be that you just have the PAL rom?

Either way, the vast majority of the SMS catalogue was made for PAL so you'll probably need to play them at 50 Hz for them to be as intended. Power Strike II, for example, is way too fast if you play it at 60 Hz in an emulator.

Plenty of games got PAL releases which weren't properly optimised, be it slower gameplay or squished aspect ratios. It's fair to say we got the raw deal.

[Retrobob]

I remember a discussion elsewhere where everyone was basically... nah play everything at 60!

[brian]

My point is, if Moonwalker didn't have very recognizable music, and instead just generic video game music you wouldn't KNOW it was playing too fast, and I would have assumed they just made Level 6-2 unnecessarily difficult.
It was only the music that clued me in. That added to the fact that I landed only 3 hits in 90 minutes of play, then after switching to 50Hz I cleared the level in less than 10 minutes and just a few lives worth of tries.

Take for example Action Fighter or Psycho Fox, when you car/bike/fox/whatever hits top speed it's VERY hard to control. Maybe because those too are intended for 50Hz and at 60Hz they go into "turbo" mode and become barely controllable. I can't help but question EVERY game now, is it playing the way it "should"?
And I don't wanna sit and wonder and fiddle between 2 different speeds to see which I prefer, and mod my SMS to do so in the process.
Like I said, I know and enjoy the games I played growing up and I think it's gonna stay at that.

In fact I'm gonna do a little research on Moonwalker's development, because even though Michael Jackson was famous the world over, I can't help but think that he is also pure "Americana" and this was a game developed with Americans in mind. Sega was marketing games to Americans by giving them recognizable Celebrities (MJ, Joe Montana, Pat Riley, Etc..) so why would an "Americana" game, released when Sega took back the reigns back from Tonka, trying to breath life back into the system, in fact re-released the whole damn system as the SMSII, but programmed a game for European Specifications? It just doesn't add up.
Were all the titles released with that nice Sega Master System logo top and center being programmed with 50Hz in mind? Maybe Dick Tracy isn't so hard. Maybe it goes back further than that. Action Fighter is no cake walk, but I bet you it's easier played in 50Hz. I would assume those old games coming from Japan were designed with 60Hz in mind... but...

But the point is... I don't want to be wondering what speed it should be played at. I should be able to Put a cart in the slot, flip the power switch, and the game plays properly.
And I can do that with ANY other system.
So that's what I'm gonna do.
Not saying I hate the SMS or anything, my memories of the games I played growing up won't change, so I'll always play those games and enjoy them... but trying to play new games, new as in games I DIDN'T play growing up? Whats the point...

[wayeK]

yes.. stop collecting and now give me all of your games

[ian]

I don't see the big deal. I just had a go at beating the last boss in Moonwalker in 60hz and did easily it enough.