Phil
Sonic the Hedgehog
Posts: 2,192
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Post by Phil on Jun 12, 2016 17:29:14 GMT
After buying a Japanese system so I could enjoy FM Sound on SMS games, I'm in two minds of whether if it was a mistake or not that Sega didn't release the chip into Master Systems outside of Japan.
Games I were looking forward to such as Power Strike and R-Type, I find I prefer the regular music is better. I prefer playing Power Strike in 50hz anyway as the slow down (although slight) to be annoying when playing in 60hz.
Games I didn't even know supported FM Sound, such as Vigilante and Double Dragon, sound amazing. Although I think SMS DD is a flickey travesty, the music kept me playing for longer than the game warranted attention.
Alien Syndrome, Aztec Adventure and Wonderboy 3 games sound pretty awesome too, but for me the sound effects suffer with FM Sound. Captain Silver I couldn't play for very long as when you use your sword words can't describe the sound that abused my ear drums.
For me the best SMS set up is using a Mark 3, which I own but my FM Unit died a while ago. At least with the Mark 3 you can decide whether or not to plug in the sound unit and use it with certain games.
Sega were probably right not to introduce the rest of the world to FM Sound, the SMS has it's unique style and I think later games showed that the music could be pretty awesome without any added extras.
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Post by Transatlantic Foe on Jun 12, 2016 18:39:24 GMT
Not a fan of the FM sound from what I've heard on let's play videos, Power Strike being one of them. It reminds me of MIDI sound in PC gaming which clearly someone thought sounded great at the time and has its fans today, but sounds flat to me.
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Post by playgeneration on Jun 12, 2016 20:41:05 GMT
It would have been nice to have the choice, if they made a European system with FM and you could easily mod it to switch between FM and PSG like you can with 50 and 60hz. Although I guess if we did have FM then no games would have used PSG after a point.
I do like some FM music, but often I prefer PSG. It might be a case of liking what I'm used to, to a certain extent. I don't find the PSG music that bad anyway, I know it gets a lot of internet hate now, but at the time it was plenty good enough, and I still appreciate its simple charms. I do wonder if people just complain to use it as a way to put down the Master System as it surpasses the Nes visually (and as far as I'm concerned with game-play fun too).
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Post by IrishNinja on Aug 20, 2016 5:36:32 GMT
still shopping around for people who do FM mods, found a few but i'd definitely want a switch...some stuff sounds grand, others are off-putting since i'm not as used to it (i wanna say Rampage, R-type and a few go here?). Phantasy Star though, man.
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Post by gallos_11 on Aug 20, 2016 18:45:08 GMT
still shopping around for people who do FM mods, found a few but i'd definitely want a switch...some stuff sounds grand, others are off-putting since i'm not as used to it (i wanna say Rampage, R-type and a few go here?). Phantasy Star though, man. Just to make it clear, only the Japanese Phantasy Star supports FM sound. It was cut from the export version to make room for the larger English script. |
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Post by IrishNinja on Aug 20, 2016 19:17:10 GMT
indeed - my idea was to play the fan-translated PS on a master everdrive, after said mod! good point though.
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Post by Stan on Aug 22, 2016 2:14:18 GMT
After buying a Japanese system so I could enjoy FM Sound on SMS games, I'm in two minds of whether if it was a mistake or not that Sega didn't release the chip into Master Systems outside of Japan. The games actually have the FM sound programmed in them outside of Japan. All you need to do is use the special adapter Bock made a few years ago to access it through your SMS. |
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Post by alianger on Sept 1, 2016 22:02:49 GMT
I'm also mixed about the FM sound; it would've been better if one could've had the sfx still be PSG based and PSG+FM was combined for music, like in the Space Harrier theme BIOS screen. Then games would've sounded like the MD or PC-88/PC-98. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iI6Irj9nI8Having listened to a bunch of YM2413 music on SMS, Arcade and MSX lately, these I think are the best examples when it comes to the music: SMS & ARC: Ys, Space Harrier/BIOS & Space Harrier 3D, Phantasy Star, Golvellius, Miracle Warriors, Rambo III, Outrun 3D, R-Type (much less grating than the arcade version), Solomon's Key, Wonder Boy III, Cyborg Hunter, Galaxy Force, Thunder Blade, Maze Hunter 3D, Wonder Boy in Monster Land, Power Strike/Aleste, Global Defense, After Burner, Dynamite Dux, Double Dragon, Quiz Tonosama no Yabou (ARC), Alex Kidd: TLS, Super Pang/Buster Bros (ARC), Fantasy Zone II, Vigilante, Zillion II, Kenseiden, MSX/MSX2: Illusion City (w/ FM-Pac), Sorcerian (w/ FM-Pac), Xak: TAoVS & Xak II (w/ AY-3-8910), Ashguine 2 (w/ FM-Pac?), Final Fantasy (w/ AY-3-8910), Xak: TToG (w/ FM-Pac?), Fire Hawk: TtSC (w/ AY-3-8910), GD: Greatest Driver, Undead Line, Golvellius, Dragon Slayer: TLoH/DS6 (w/ AY-3-8910?), Sonyc (pirate), Laydock 2, Fray In Magical Adventure (w/ FM-Pac), Aleste 2, Starship Rendezvous (w/ FM-Pac?), Columns, Feedback, F-1 Spirit 3D Special, Aleste, Psychic World/Psycho World, Hydefos, |
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Post by awesker on Sept 1, 2016 22:59:36 GMT
I'm also mixed about the FM sound; it would've been better if one could've had the sfx still be PSG based and PSG+FM was combined for music, like in the Space Harrier theme BIOS screen. Having PSG for sfx and FM for music is exactly what the FM sound hack for Sonic the Hedgehog does. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WRwpcV9_30 |
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Post by ian on Sept 2, 2016 13:00:01 GMT
I've never really been a fan of the FM sound. It just feels a bit soft to me. I think PSG sounds great when used right, there's loads of great SMS soundtracks.
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Phil
Sonic the Hedgehog
Posts: 2,192
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Post by Phil on Sept 2, 2016 17:45:41 GMT
I've never really been a fan of the FM sound. It just feels a bit soft to me. I think PSG sounds great when used right, there's loads of great SMS soundtracks. Maybe so but Action Fighter with FM Sound would have been a godsend, Action Fighter with any other music would be a godsend!!! Ok the sound chip isn't as primitive/bad as the Atari 2600 but it does fall short to the NES. Am I going to be shot for saying that? Maybe I'm wrong, not to say the Disney games for instance do sound amazing, but then you have Monopoly or can I say Alf?! Maybe American developers were being bribed by Nintendo to compose duff music  |
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Post by Maxim on Sept 2, 2016 19:21:29 GMT
Even Sonic on the Mega Drive uses the SMS sound chip for a lot of the sound effects and music because the FM chip can't make the right sounds. Ultimately the SMS non-FM chip is marginally worse than the NES one in terms of capabilities, but for both it requires a decent music engine to make the best of the chip anyway. Have a listen to some ColecoVision games some day - it's the same chip, and it's even worse.
It's a shame they never did mixed-chip audio for Japan, but it would only sound right on a Master System, not a Mark III.
In the end, what mostly happened was that Sega made a two-chip music engine, with the same data for both, which means the 6-channel FM chip was only using three. That meant they could have FM and non-FM music for minimal cost, but it also means the FM chip was never really used to its maximum potential. Layering those extra three channels in would have really filled out the sound - compare to the Japanese BIOS demo (which gets up to nine channels, I think).
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Post by alianger on Sept 3, 2016 14:07:11 GMT
^In terms of the sfx, nothing they couldn't do as well with FM except for one or two of the noise-based ones. Making a square wave with FM is pretty easy. But PSG helps with extra harmonies and to fill out lead melodies in the music, since there are fewer channels than on the YM2151 for example.
Not to rag on the SMS chip, but the NES one was a lot better for its time with its deep bass, drum samples and more complex square waves and noise. Only the special mode for the noise channel on SMS was an advantage for that console in that you could make decent sawtooth basslines, but it was rarely used.
That the YM2413 wasn't fully used is a good point, and the Sonic hack, BIOS as well as the better MSX osts I listed show this well.
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Post by KnightWarrior on Nov 30, 2016 21:54:58 GMT
The FM Hack for Sonic sounds good
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Post by nearbythiscafe on Dec 1, 2016 10:24:49 GMT
After buying a Japanese system so I could enjoy FM Sound on SMS games, I'm in two minds of whether if it was a mistake or not that Sega didn't release the chip into Master Systems outside of Japan. The games actually have the FM sound programmed in them outside of Japan. All you need to do is use the special adapter Bock made a few years ago to access it through your SMS. Have you got a link to this adapter? Thanks |
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