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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 8, 2012 16:00:01 GMT
As far as i am concerned a gaming era is ended by an advance in technology,nothing else.Sure Nintendo has tight restrictions in many things from being reluctant to let designers name themselves in games to various licences but i am not sure about it chocking the video game market to death. Competition is always good for every business. If there's no competition you get lazy and think you can't do anything wrong. That's what happened to Nintendo who thought by releasing the same game over and over again, they never lose their tight grip on the market. In the end they did. And about the new technology: Imagine if the Master System and the Atari 7800 were able to compete with Nintendo. Imagine games like Castlevania, Mega Man, Contra on the Master System, i think in the end it would've led to even better games as Sega and Nintendo would've fought with their franchises. In that environment we would've seen Alex Kidd in Miracle World 2 and not the crap like Hi-Tech World. Imagine the consoles fighting for Nr. 1 going into 1990, then Sega and Nintendo release their new systems. The Mega Drive/Genesis with better graphic capabilites, the SNES with a faster CPU going head to head. Everything would've pushed back. 32-Bit Era starting in maybe 1996 or even early 1997 when 3D graphics were decent and not crap like when the Playstation was first released, a Saturn that wasn't a 2D Console by heart with some crappy 3D Graphics on top of it that never really worked. I think the gamers, we, would've gotten a lot better games, better systems and in the end a more interesting console war. Instead what we got was a 16-Bit Era that produced some very good games, a lot of crap and gave us 2 consoles with lots of hardware flaws. And that was just because Nintendo had a tight grip on the 8-Bit market and then, when Sega went to the next level (i had to include the pun) Nintendo rushed the SNES out as fast as they could.
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Post by KnightWarrior on Mar 12, 2012 6:34:14 GMT
I think Ninteno had a hand of killing off anything so the NES will be by it's self in the 8 bit market
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Post by choplifter on Mar 15, 2012 15:44:08 GMT
I always hate it when people blame a console for "ruining" gaming. The Playstation console did nothing but supply hardware for developers to create games on. If you don't like the games from that era, blame the devs, not the console maker. The Sony Playstation was a huge revolution and should be considered as such. I'm a big Sega fan, and was a very big Nintendo fan back then (not anymore), and I'll be the first to say that there's always going to be a part of me that doesn't like Sony for the fact they pretty much helped kill the Dreamcast.
However, at the end of the day, it would have happened either way. Sega was shooting themselves in the foot every other second. From the 32X, to the Sega CD, to the Saturn, and to the Dreamcast... Sega couldn't seem to either 1. Create hardware people wanted for the price people wanted it at or 2. Run the business properly and create games people wanted on time (Sonic comes to mind - Saturn). So even if Sony wasn't there to hype up their PS2, Sega would have been taken out by someone else. Nintendo wasn't doing nearly as well as they should have done in the N64 days... if Sony wasn't there to take them out, someone else would have stepped up to the plate and entered the market.
Getting back on topic, as a kid I had an NES. The name "Sega Master System" meant nothing to me. I had honestly never heard of any home Sega system until the Genesis. But looking back, I really wish I had. The SMS is a wonderful system, and it doesn't surprise me that Nintendo, with all their douchy behavior, would stifle the industry. They pretty much treated everyone like crap until the GC era. NES-SNES era they treated 3rd party companies EXTREMELY poorly, and while in the N64 era they tried a little bit to entice people to develop for them with the threat of the PS on the horizon, the fact they still treated them badly with overly expensive cartridge fees and terrible rules on profit (you didn't make ANY profit unless you sold a certain amount of games to make up for said cartridge fees), it honestly doesn't surprise me Nintendo took a nose dive.
Even today with the Wii, Nintendo still has horrible policies that keep 3rd party devs at bay. Each generation, you ever notice how they always try to hallmark 3rd party support in their presentations, but then it never happens? This is why. Take a look at Wiiware for instance. It's like 1996 all over again. You only make money on your game if you sell a certain amount of downloads. What indie dev would sign up for that??
At the end of the day, as much as I liked Nintendo, and as much as I like Sega, their failures were brought about by themselves, and really no one else. Sony Playstation, outside of innovations such as dual analogs etc, changed the industry back then. They helped developers make the games they wanted, and helped them make as much money as possible doing so. They've always, even today, recognize a good developer when they see one, and if they are in trouble they help them instead of killing them off (Motorstorm RC is a great example, look into that...).
I'm not saying Sony is perfect. There's not a single company out there that hasn't done something wrong hardware, software, management, or PR wise. And Sony has had it's share. But I am happy that Sony came in when they did. They pushed the industry forward, and more importantly, finally showed Nintendo that treating people like crap would come back to haunt them.
As for Sega, only recently has Sega really started hitting their stride. Roughly a decade later, they finally have their priorities right, and are making hit after hit. There's no way they could have supported poor software AND a poorly selling platform in that time. Could Sega ever come back? It depends. I think if Sony or Microsoft (or Nintendo for that matter) ever dropped out, they might consider it. But I think at the end of the day, they realized what their strong suit was (games) and focused on it. And I applaud them for it.
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Post by frankfjs on Mar 16, 2012 4:03:01 GMT
To me, it's not about Nintendo killing the 8-bit era, it's about them monopolising the industry with unfair (and later declared illegal) contracts they forced software developers to adhere to. I think this was a horrible thing for the consumer and it certainly hindered the Master System's success.
I didn't notice anyone blaming a console for killing gaming, maybe I need to read back a bit, but on a similar topic I don't think SEGA stuffed up at all with the Dreamcast. I think they did everything right with that piece of hardware, they had just burnt too many bridges by that point and not many companies can compete with the marketing power of SONY.
The only console that I think SEGA should be ashamed of is the 32X. It wasn't necessary, cost too much and the way you had to hook everything up was such a stupid design.
The Game Gear receives a lot of flack too but I admire SEGA for trying something new. Sure the screen quality could have been better but for its time there's nothing wrong with it and it certainly wasn't alone in the poor screen department - it's just how things were back then, LCD displays were expensive to produce.
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Post by KnightWarrior on Mar 19, 2012 18:12:17 GMT
Did anyone here get Nintendo Power in the Mail??
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 30, 2012 16:41:44 GMT
I always hate it when people blame a console for "ruining" gaming. But sometimes it's true. Do you think there would be Kinect and Playstation Move without the Wii being so extremely successful with it's motion-control crap? The Wii had this weird gadget, for some reason it worked (mostly in casual games) so Sony and Microsoft jumped on the Bandwagon or should i say Failwagon? Same with the Playstation 2: There's the saying that one of the reasons why the Dreamcast failed was because it wasn't able to play DVDs and people were holding out of the PS2 and it's DVD capabilities. It ruined the Dreamcast and somehow gaming and i wonder why. I mean did people in the 80's say "Yeah let's wait and see if that new Super Nintendo thingy can play audio-cassettes that would be awesome and the Genesis/Mega Drive would suck because it can't" and while the N64 failed it wasn't because it couldn't play Audio CDs because nobody wanted to use their console as Hi-Fi System. But suddenly there was this whole DVD crap and only for one Generation as the Wii sells like crazy without being able to play anything. However, at the end of the day, it would have happened either way. Sega was shooting themselves in the foot every other second. From the 32X, to the Sega CD, to the Saturn, and to the Dreamcast... Sega couldn't seem to either 1. Create hardware people wanted for the price people wanted it at or 2. Run the business properly and create games people wanted on time (Sonic comes to mind - Saturn). So even if Sony wasn't there to hype up their PS2, Sega would have been taken out by someone else. Nintendo wasn't doing nearly as well as they should have done in the N64 days... if Sony wasn't there to take them out, someone else would have stepped up to the plate and entered the market. First: I still don't understand why the Sega CD is considered a flop or failure when it sold over 6 million units which is an impressive number for a add-on (even though most stupid gaming sites handle the Sega CD and 32X as seperate consoles...for whatever reasons) The 32X should've have never existed of course, it was a horrible piece of faeces nobody needed. Nintendo was already doing bad during the SNES days. Yes, in the end the SNES sold more than the Mega Drive but mosly because of a longer lifespan and mostly thanks to japan having only an interest in JRPG games. But overall, Nintendo only dominated the world once (and not even completely) and that was during the NES days. Once the third party contracts were terminated and Sega got Konami, Capcom and the others to produce games for the Genesis, Nintendo was basically done and would've lost the 16-Bit war if Sega hadn't decided to stop all Genesis support in early 1995, another big mistake by the company. if Sony wasn't there to take them out, someone else would have stepped up to the plate and entered the market. Who? - Atari? After the failure of the Lynx and the Jaguar, Jack Trammiel had no interest in the company anymore and sold it to JTS in 1996 who did nothing with the company. They sold them to Hasbro in 1998 and Atari became just a brandname. - 3DO? Done after the failure of the 3DO system, they became a game publisher and had no interest in going back to the hardware world. - Philips? Had no interest after the CD-I became a flop - Commodore? Bankrupt, mostly because of the Amiga 1200 but also because of the Amiga CD32 console - Apple? Most people don't even know about the Pipin - NEC? Released another system after the PC Engine/Turbografx 16 named the PC-FX and nobody outside of Japan know it existed - SNK? After the Hyper Neo Geo 64 failed in the Arcade world they continued with the Neo Geo and went bankrupt in 2001 - Pioneer? Does somebody even remember the LaserActive or know it was a console and not just some weird Laserdisc player that with the addition of Add-Ons was able to play Genesis/Mega Drive and PC Engine games? It was a flop and Pioneer never worked on another system. - Fujitsu had the FM Towns Marty but it was only sold in Japan, they never had the interest to release it somewhere else. - Bandai worked with Apple on the failure named Pipin and later released another flop, the Playdia. There was no other company (i doubt that Microsoft in the middle of trying to make Windows 95 a success would've thought "Hey...let's create a console!"). The biggest electronic and toy companies already tried their luck with video game systems and they all failed. It was only Sony. How would the world have looked without the Playstation? I guess the Saturn would've done a whole lot better. First of all, without the Playstation as competitor, Sega never wouldn't have released the system as early as they did. Also with Nintendo still working on their "Hyper 64" for quite some time the Saturn would've been the only new system on the market. Maybe the Saturn would've even been released a lot later and Sega continued on their original plans with the Neptune. Who knows.
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Post by BobSega on Sept 17, 2016 13:40:28 GMT
Very interesting, reading back over all this. Ok, I owned an SMS and MD, I never owned a NES or SNES, I'm biased and I'm resentful of the success of those 2 Nintendo consoles. I know that there were a sh;t-ton more games made for the NES than for the SMS and SG1000 put together. Now while I owned an SMS I did actually get to play some of those games. There was a shop that had a demonstration NES and they would change the game every so often. I was impressed by some of the games and had to admit that some seemed to give more challenge than SMS games. Actually I did eventually buy a NES, but in 2004 and got to play a few more games. I think I'm presently more on the side of the SMS, though there are hundreds of NES games I haven't played. Was Nintendo guilty of unsporting and possibly illegal business? Maybe. I think it would be hard to find a saint who did what was best for video games rather than best for themselves.
As for the SNES, well my SNES experience is very limited. Most of it is through watching games rather than playing. But based on what experience I have, I feel that SNES game developers tended to put more into the game's appearance than anything else. I wonder if SNES games lack some of the essentials of good MD games.
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Post by BobSega on Sept 19, 2016 6:35:43 GMT
Having a read a bit about the Nintendo's third-party exclusivity and how the law forced it to stop(eventually) I'm inclined to feel that Nintendo did what was best for themselves and not what was best for gaming. Where the question was asked "Did Nintendo kill the 8-bit era?" I'm sure they meant "did they make the 8-bit era a lot worse than it could have been", not "did they bring an end to the 8-bit era". Well I don't think exclusivity was good for the 8-bit era, but I wouldn't blame Nintendo alone. All the companies that agreed to exclusivity supported it. Of course there were some companies that thought they wouldn't get a better deal and you could say that was being exploited by Nintendo. But even if gaming was better because of Nintendo's exclusivity, I think fair competition is more important.
As for Sega's partnerings with third-parties. I know that Coreland was a company that Sega partnered with in the early '80s. I think they developed Pengo for Sega in 1982, though I don't think they shared the copyright with them like later games Swat, The Tougyuu/Bullfight, My Hero, 4-D Warriors,I'm Sorry(Gonbee no I'm Sorry), Brain, Gardia and Rafflesia. Another important partnership was of course Westone(previously Escape) who developed the Wonder Boy games for Sega, of which there were many ports. Most of the games are co-copyrighted to Sega and Westone(the SG-1000 version of Wonder Boy is co-copyrighted to Sega and Escape) some to Westone alone with the reprogrammed version copyrighted to Sega. Sega would of course reprogram many games first developed by others for example:- Coreland's My Hero Westone(Escape)'s Wonder Boy series(x4) Compile's Aleste aka. Power Strike & Golvellius First Star's Spy vs. Spy Dan Gorlin/Broederbund's Choplifter Activision's Ghostbusters Kogado/Ascii's Haja no Fuuin/Miracle Warriors Technos's Double Dragon & Renegade Data East's Captain Silver Falcom's Y's Bally Midway's Rampage Epyx's Summer Games, World Games, California Games I & II Irem's R-Type & Vigilante Capcom's Ghouls 'n Ghosts,Forgotten Worlds,Mercs and Strider Alpha Denshi's Time Soldiers Origin's Ultima IV Seibu Kaihatsu's Dead Angle and Dynamite Duke Tecmo's Ninja Gaiden & Tecmo World Cup Taito's Rainbow Islands, Jaleco's Pop Flamer & Exerion Hertz Co.'sPsycho World(Psychic World) Nexa Corporation(USA) (much hated)F16 Fighting Falcon(first released for MSX in '84) Artech's Ace of Aces
Some third-party SMS developers are: Nexa Corporation(USA) Monopoly '88, ALF '89 Sanritsu Denki(Bank Panic '85, Bomber Raid '88, Wanted '89, Tennis Ace '89, Aerial Assault '90, Buster Douglas Boxing '90, Assault City '90, Slap Shot '90, Golfamania '90, Line of Fire '91) Compile(Parlour Games '87, Casino Games '89,Power Strike II '93, Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine '94) Aicom(Megumi Rescue '88) Taito(Rastan '88,Bubble Bobble '88,'91, Operation Wolf '90, Chase H.Q '90, Space Gun '92,New Zealand Story '92) Sailo(Rygar & Solomon's Key '88[both from Tecmo, arcade '86]) Hot B Co.(Cloud Master '89[orig. Chuka Taisen, Taito '88]) Absolute Entertainment(RC Grand Prix '89) Vic Tokai(Psycho Fox '89) Opera House(Double Hawk '90, Running Battle '91) BlueSky Software(Dick Tracy '90, Joe Montana Football '90) Ancient Co.[Yuzo Koshiro](Sonic '91,Streets of Rage II '93) Probe Software(Sega Chess '91, Desert Speed Trap '93,The Flash '93, Daffy Duck in Hollywood '94) Artech(Ace of Aces '91) SIMS Co.(Tom & Jerry '92, Master of Darkness '92, Putt & Putter Golf '92, Air Rescue '92,Buggy Run '93,Wimbledon, Wimbledon II '93,Masters of Combat '93, Aladdin '94) Aspect Co(Batman Returns '92, Sonic 2 '92, Deep Duck Trouble '93,Sonic Chaos '93, Legend of Illusion '94) DMA Design(Lemmings '92) Novotrade(Ecco the Dolphin '93) Rage Software(Ultimate Soccer '93) Graftgold(The Ottifants '93) Core Design(Asterix & the Great Rescue '94) Cryo Interactive(Cheese Catastrophe '95)
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Post by KnightWarrior on Nov 30, 2016 21:06:32 GMT
I think Nintendo was afrade kids would go to the Master System insted the NES, The Games will look better, That's my theiry
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