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Post by meu2 on Dec 14, 2011 8:08:01 GMT
I wouldn't say that GAW is in another league. I think that's one of the things a lot of gamers always misunderstand "longer is not better" and "epic is not better". Just because a game is a adventure or a rpg, doesn't mean it's automatically better than some short 2D Jump n' Run or a racing game. Maybe it's just me but watching at Gamefaqs, Mobygames, The Legacy and other historical sites, i get the impression that a lot of gamers think that only the 'large' games are worth playing and Racing games, sports games and others suck or aren't worth the time. You can see it in all those top 10 lists that usually consists only of the long games, the long jump n' runs, action adventures, rpgs, rarely you find a sports or racing title there. I think it's sad, those games can be as awesome as great as the others and especially with Retro, there's a tendency to only focus on the 'large games' and that's why you get racing and sport titles for cheap prices but have to play a shitload for Golden Axe Warrior and others. It's something i never really understand, i enjoy basically all genres and don't think that a racing game can't be as awesome as some big RPG. That's a good point. There does seem to be a tendency for “epic” games to be remembered more fondly than more casual genres like sports and racing games. I actually think epic games, such as Phantasy Star, often age worse than the shorter pickup and play games.
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Post by robocod on Dec 14, 2011 9:44:42 GMT
Micro Machines had me hooked from the first play. Golden Axe Warrior was one of those RPGs I could never get into. Golden Axe Warrior is not an RPG, it's an Action-Adventure, there's barely anything "RPG" about it, it's an action game with "look for the caves and enemies, buy some stuff" gameplay on to it. =RPG then,i think your are sub-categorising when there is no need.
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Post by Transatlantic Foe on Dec 14, 2011 12:49:26 GMT
It's an action RPG. True you can argue that Sonic is an RPG because you play the "role" of a character and there's some story there. Although that literal interpretation is a bit like saying Foo Fighters are pop music because they're popular. To be an RPG, you need a progressive storyline and an element of freedom (even if it's just the illusion of freedom). Categorising something as an RPG is a bit like categorising a shooter. It's a broad term with plenty of sub-genres which differ massively.
Games like Golden Axe Warrior and Zelda focus on real-time action but do so in a large overworld to explore with a defined storyline and interaction with other characters. As I see it, "adventure" games are more in the Metroid spirit - where you have a large world to explore and although they feature some elements from action RPGs, there is little in the way of story progression. It's more about "adventuring" than "playing a role" in a bigger story.
I have never been able to cope with the horrible handling mechanics in Micro Machines. I could if I wanted to, but it's a barrier that I don't see as worthwhile to get over in order to get to any level of fun. Therefore Golden Axe Warrior takes it by a country mile.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Dec 14, 2011 13:47:22 GMT
That's a good point. There does seem to be a tendency for “epic” games to be remembered more fondly than more casual genres like sports and racing games. I actually think epic games, such as Phantasy Star, often age worse than the shorter pickup and play games. Definitely, because those 'simpler' genres never change a lot. Play Tennis on the Atari 2600 and play a modern Tennis game, the only difference is having more buttons for different shots but it's still the same basic gamepla as it was 30 years ago. Same with Shoot 'em Ups, it never really changed from the "dodge the bullets, shoot the enemies" gameplay. There's not much different between say Aleste and Castle of Shikigami even though Castle was released 15 years later. RPGs, Adventures, First Person Shooter and other such genres advance and changed a lot over the years, First Person Shooters changed from "Played with Keyboard" to "Played with Keyboard and Mouse" which is totally different to play (the early FPS have always Auto-Aim on, modern Shooters don't have that)
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Post by grolt on Dec 14, 2011 21:35:54 GMT
Micro Machines had me hooked from the first play. Golden Axe Warrior was one of those RPGs I could never get into. Golden Axe Warrior is not an RPG, it's an Action-Adventure, there's barely anything "RPG" about it, it's an action game with "look for the caves and enemies, buy some stuff" gameplay on to it. The same as Zelda isn't an RPG. Role-playing Games are (or better were) a lot different to those console games (played on the PC with "draw maps", discover the world, create your character, do what you think is right" and things like that) I never really much understood why people differentiate between traditional turn-based RPGS and "Action-Adventure" games like Zelda or GAW. Other than Final Fantasy being turn-based and Zelda being real-time, there's hardly any difference. You're both still attacking enemies, playing out an epic story, earning money, upgrading your equipment and partaking in optional side-quests in a world that's yours to explore. Both are RPGs, if you ask me. GAW has a huge open world and lets you do some optional things at your own discretion, like gambling in that one secret spot in the forest. You can go in multiple paths (and often have to go back to previous parts of worlds with new upgrades) and can talk to townspeople and build a story of your own scope. To me these are the qualities that most define an RPG and GAW, like Golvellius on the SMS, is most certainly that!
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dezanuebe
Sonic the Hedgehog
Master System, the best of all times...
Posts: 2,177
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Post by dezanuebe on Dec 14, 2011 22:07:42 GMT
I can't believe GAW is getting blown out of the water here, but I guess that's the handicap with any RPGs in this contest - most people do not have the time (or interest) to play these long games in full and instead opt for a game that's more accessible like Micro Machines. Nothing against MM, but GAW is in a whole other league. I Agree that it´s really sad seeing GAW being eliminated. And i also agree with the fact that not finishing the game reduces the likebility of it... if it was Phantasy Star i would vote on it.. The first RPG i ever played and finished...three times!!
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Post by rupert on Dec 16, 2011 0:13:12 GMT
Micro Machines is a clear winner for me, the two player mode is maybe the most fun 2 player game n the system (after putt and putter of course )
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Post by ShadowAngel on Dec 19, 2011 14:14:01 GMT
I never really much understood why people differentiate between traditional turn-based RPGS and "Action-Adventure" games like Zelda or GAW. Other than Final Fantasy being turn-based and Zelda being real-time, there's hardly any difference. You're both still attacking enemies, playing out an epic story, earning money, upgrading your equipment and partaking in optional side-quests in a world that's yours to explore. Both are RPGs, if you ask me Both are Action-Adventures. Do you know what a RPG makes an RPG and why those japanese games aren't real RPGs but Action-Adventures?: - You should have the chance to create your own character. Different character classes, looks, you say what skills he should have at the start. Make him a intelligent wizard, a dim-witted but strong barbarian. In most of these games you get a pre-made character and it's usually not a very likeable figure (most of the time a child/young guy, most of the time completely emo, don't know why the japanese like children/teens as characters so much), making it hard to really get you in his shoes - Also during the game you should yourself level the character up, decide for yourself where the skill points should go. Most of those games are with auto-level up, you can't do anything. - Complete Freedom. Basically you should get just dropped off in the world and than look around. Most of those japanese games are level-based without showing it. But you usually follow a pre-made path, the path the game wants you to go. From town to town but it's from A to B to C and not "Oh i go there first (C), then there (A), then there (B) and after that i take a look at the dungeon". - Also the game shouldn't give you direct hints on where to go. The later Legend of Zeldas show on the Map directly where you have to go. Games like Final Fantasy are so linear that the only things are missing are Neon-Signs like "Bad Guys Cave here" or "Follow this path to the big evil". RPGs shouldn't be this helpful and linear, it's boring. - You can't do anything. You can't attack the towns people, you can't play around with the world, everything is static, the games want you to be the perfect hero. It's completely boring. Usually you should have the chance to kill everyone, do whatever the rubber duck you want and it should show. Kill all people, you become the enemy and not much of a Hero anymore. Also conversations should be multiple choice or at least give you the chance to answer and that again should have effects on the NPCs in the world. In JRPGs the dialogues are usually self-running. You can't do anything. - Also if there's a party, you should be able to decide for yourself, who's in the party and who's not. After all, it's your Journey and you're the Hero. But in those JRPG's party members come and go whenever and whereever they want and if there's an bottom hole character, you completely dislike, you can't even attack and kill him or send him away. - And most of those games lack a decent range of Items and Weapons. Usually in Games like Zelda or Landstalker or even Phantasy Star you just get Swords with different abilities and basically in every new town you get a better set of armour. But it's again a level-system, where you get better stuff on every new level. It's boring. In real RPG Shops should contain various items and you should go back and forth buying if you have the money - or discover items in the wild. RPG is just more than guiding a character through a world and beating a evil character in the end. There's a lot more to it. Play Baldurs Gate 2, Fallout 2, Planescape Torment, Might & Magic or Icewind Dale to see what RPG is all about and then compare that to Zelda, Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star or all the other japanese games, it's a whole different type of game and experience.
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Post by Stan on Dec 19, 2011 18:35:52 GMT
I went with Axe because MM is present in the same form on a couple of systems.
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Post by kungfukid on Dec 19, 2011 20:08:58 GMT
I went for GAW, for the same reason that Stan said. I love both games, and I do especially love Micro Machines, but having played it on so many formats it doesn't feel to me quite as much of a Master System game (I definitely played it on the Megadrive first). Golden Axe Warrior on the other hand is also a great game, and also to me 'feels' like a Master System game. So I'm quite sure that nostalgia is playing a part in this one for me, but GAW it is!
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Post by brian on Dec 19, 2011 22:17:15 GMT
I never really much understood why people differentiate between traditional turn-based RPGS and "Action-Adventure" games like Zelda or GAW. Other than Final Fantasy being turn-based and Zelda being real-time, there's hardly any difference. You're both still attacking enemies, playing out an epic story, earning money, upgrading your equipment and partaking in optional side-quests in a world that's yours to explore. Both are RPGs, if you ask me Both are Action-Adventures. Do you know what a RPG makes an RPG and why those japanese games aren't real RPGs but Action-Adventures?: - You should have the chance to create your own character. Different character classes, looks, you say what skills he should have at the start. Make him a intelligent wizard, a dim-witted but strong barbarian. In most of these games you get a pre-made character and it's usually not a very likeable figure (most of the time a child/young guy, most of the time completely emo, don't know why the japanese like children/teens as characters so much), making it hard to really get you in his shoes - Also during the game you should yourself level the character up, decide for yourself where the skill points should go. Most of those games are with auto-level up, you can't do anything. - Complete Freedom. Basically you should get just dropped off in the world and than look around. Most of those japanese games are level-based without showing it. But you usually follow a pre-made path, the path the game wants you to go. From town to town but it's from A to B to C and not "Oh i go there first (C), then there (A), then there (B) and after that i take a look at the dungeon". - Also the game shouldn't give you direct hints on where to go. The later Legend of Zeldas show on the Map directly where you have to go. Games like Final Fantasy are so linear that the only things are missing are Neon-Signs like "Bad Guys Cave here" or "Follow this path to the big evil". RPGs shouldn't be this helpful and linear, it's boring. - You can't do anything. You can't attack the towns people, you can't play around with the world, everything is static, the games want you to be the perfect hero. It's completely boring. Usually you should have the chance to kill everyone, do whatever the rubber duck you want and it should show. Kill all people, you become the enemy and not much of a Hero anymore. Also conversations should be multiple choice or at least give you the chance to answer and that again should have effects on the NPCs in the world. In JRPGs the dialogues are usually self-running. You can't do anything. - Also if there's a party, you should be able to decide for yourself, who's in the party and who's not. After all, it's your Journey and you're the Hero. But in those JRPG's party members come and go whenever and whereever they want and if there's an bottom hole character, you completely dislike, you can't even attack and kill him or send him away. - And most of those games lack a decent range of Items and Weapons. Usually in Games like Zelda or Landstalker or even Phantasy Star you just get Swords with different abilities and basically in every new town you get a better set of armour. But it's again a level-system, where you get better stuff on every new level. It's boring. In real RPG Shops should contain various items and you should go back and forth buying if you have the money - or discover items in the wild. RPG is just more than guiding a character through a world and beating a evil character in the end. There's a lot more to it. Play Baldurs Gate 2, Fallout 2, Planescape Torment, Might & Magic or Icewind Dale to see what RPG is all about and then compare that to Zelda, Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star or all the other japanese games, it's a whole different type of game and experience. TESTIFY!!!
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Post by Stan on Dec 20, 2011 20:22:29 GMT
I went for GAW, for the same reason that Stan said. I love both games, and I do especially love Micro Machines, but having played it on so many formats it doesn't feel to me quite as much of a Master System game (I definitely played it on the Megadrive first). Golden Axe Warrior on the other hand is also a great game, and also to me 'feels' like a Master System game. So I'm quite sure that nostalgia is playing a part in this one for me, but GAW it is! Might as well use some new lingo here. Well relatively new anyway. This ^
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