XOR
Cloud Master
Posts: 36
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Post by XOR on Aug 4, 2009 18:39:57 GMT
I finally registered ;D
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Post by Stan on Aug 4, 2009 20:08:37 GMT
Hahha, hello! Hope you got a chance to read through the new stuff. I fixed any errors or things I missed. There is plenty to read in the literature in the links I provided while I write the next part. I will have a lot of time this coming weekend, so I'm planning to have the next 2-3 pages up (where you get to work with actual code) during that time.
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XOR
Cloud Master
Posts: 36
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Post by XOR on Aug 5, 2009 1:50:44 GMT
Looking forward to it
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Post by Maxim on Aug 5, 2009 17:51:24 GMT
I must have a short attention span. If it wasn't for the fun of finding fault, there's no way I'd get through all that text. A quick copy/paste into Word finds that (after I remove the small amount of assembler) there's over 24,000 words so far...
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Post by Bock on Aug 8, 2009 2:46:37 GMT
I could not get myself to even read it past page one, it seems to be doing everything possible to avoid going to the point.
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XOR
Cloud Master
Posts: 36
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Post by XOR on Aug 8, 2009 22:57:40 GMT
I'm awaiting the next part patiently
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Post by Stan on Aug 9, 2009 15:39:58 GMT
My oh my, guys, you're such babies. I appreciate comments that point out mistakes I made, syntax errors and so forth, but stuff like this doesn't get anywhere. You know, I've gotten a few PMs already from people wanting help with stuff concerning this, and as you see, there is one person here who likes it and there are a few more who have just PMed me with a few issues they needed help with. I've also got a few friends who do NES programming and guess which tutorial they've been looking at to take a look at starting SMS stuff? Here's a hint, not yours, because they didn't like the way it was organized, if you can even say there's any organization.
If you're going to post in this thread, how about instead of saying waaaaaah waaaah it is long I don't like you are dumb man Stan I am gooder than you dumb man, why don't you do something about it? The sad part is both of you have the skills to write a really, really awesome tutorial, but you just spend the time sitting on your ass complaining. Most of what I'm writing is set-up and organized in the same fashion as the Atariage 2600 programming tutorial and the Nintendoage NES programming tutorial, where people actually get substantial results out of it. Eventually, this is going to be a good tutorial, and if I'm already getting questions about it, I'm happy with that and I'm happy I can answer them now.
But what's the point of sitting here making fun of me? You wonder why less people post on your forums sometimes, it's because, Max, you're sometimes a total a55hole. It annoys me that you're so good at programming but put zero effort anymore into really trying to get SMS homebrewing farther along. You don't mention anywhere on your site anything about some of the great, free programs out there for making sprite code, level editing and so forth, stuff that makes it so easy. All you do is make it seem way more daunting than it really is if you put a little work into it. Bock at least is nice about answering things, but you're just a total douche most of the time. So, if you want to 'have fun finding fault', that's fine, I appreciate the mistake searching and someone needs to do it. Otherwise, don't even bother posting.
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2009 15:59:31 GMT
You know Maxim, you're really a rude guy. I have to tell you, I don't like your tutorial and I was only able to understand it after reading what Stan wrote. I think what he's doing is really cool and will eventually help a lot of people. It's more than you seem to be doing and he's nice about it. Some day, people are going to be learning more because of what he's done here.
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Post by Bock on Aug 9, 2009 16:10:19 GMT
Stan we already discussed that. My opinion is that you don't put the effort into learning and that it is wrong to write a tutorial when you are learning since essentially you are spreading around your own misunderstanding of things. You should be working hard to MAKE things before considering teaching. I sincerely believe that what you written so far will never get anyone to boot up from scratch to useful programming. Mind you, it is probably better to have this work online rather than not, but you would do better learning things yourself first.
Maxim has done great tutorials for what they are - granted, they don't cover whining babies who expect to be served ABC on a plate on our site when ABC is already in a lot of places - and we are writing homebrews on our free time. Updating documentations take time, of course it's unperfect and scattered but the information are there. You can't judge us for not contributing enough to the community, we are all busy, the point if you invest time is to invest it the best you can. Programming is not just easy and not easy to start with. The development forums are great resources for many programmers but this is no cake walk, I mean it. People like Maxim keep answering proper questions posted on the forums. It is an investment to program and you just seem to try to attract the crowd here who is a crowd HAPPY to be NOT interested in it. What I've been so far is this you've been bragging and talking since what, years, and we haven't seen the slightest piece of working program from you. You can't devote 2% of your time to programming, it doesn't work.
Don't say we don't support you when you ignore our advices and you end calling out people.
Also considering the amount of unneeded posts on some forums we are perfectly happy that SMS Power can stay a forum with a proper signal-to-noise ratio.
Call it being rude, we call it being efficient.
I'll stop ever posting in this section, good luck with your father transplant.
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Post by Stan on Aug 9, 2009 16:13:31 GMT
That's because I don't show you my work. I show what I have to Scott, someone who actually programmed a working game that will work on a real system. You'll see what I've been doing when the relevant sections appear. I don't recall bragging, either, I just said I'm happy with my progress. What advice? That's not about anyone's father, by the way, thanks for quoting my bottom quote thing for no reason. Seriously, why bother? The more you guys post and say stuff like this, the more you push some people away.
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XOR
Cloud Master
Posts: 36
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Post by XOR on Aug 9, 2009 18:26:36 GMT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Bock i'm quoting you Maxim has done great tutorials for what they are - granted, they don't cover whining babies who expect to be served ABC on a plate on our site ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Bock if u haven't noticed you and maxim are the only ones whining
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Post by Maxim on Aug 10, 2009 10:10:18 GMT
Seriously, what's with all the hate?
Stan has a verbose, circumlocutious writing style that tends to lead to discussion of spiderpig with large eyes and Spider-Pig. My writing style tends to be more terse and minimalistic - if nothing else, I don't have the time to write more - which may be harder to penetrate. If some prefer one or the other than that's fine with me, but with any piece of work what matters more than anything is feedback. When I mention that Stan's written a huge amount but not actually achieved anything other than "background", I'm trying to tell him that I think he could make it better by making it shorter. I also point out where I think it's wrong, misleading, unclear, etc. If he wants to read my tutorial and tell me where it's unclear, obtuse, insufficiently explained, etc then I'll happily take that and when I get the time, I'll try to update things.
It might be worthwhile to consider the intersection of the set of people who know how to program for the Master System, and still do so; and those who are participating in this forum. You may find that you get a number not much greater than two, which would perhaps suggest why we are the ones giving the greatest feedback in this respect.
Finally, I would like to suggest a fact of life that has a great bearing on this. I moan a lot about not having enough free time to work on stuff. That is because I work full-time in a job with long hours. Most of my major projects were started at a time in my life when I was not doing that, and I had hugely more free time which I was unable to appreciate at the time. As far as I understand it, Bock is in a similar situation, even if his job is a lot more cool than mine. Stan seems to be blessed with a lot of spare time (that, or he can write really quickly), and I can't help wishing he'd make better use of it before it's gone. Why should I be concerned about someone who considers me an A fifty-five hole? Perhaps because I care about this community into which I've poured thousands of hours of my life.
Stan, I'll keep reading your tutorial. I'll give feedback to try to help make it better. At the rate you're going it will be incredibly long; this will always be my primary criticism, because it makes it harder for people to read. If you really think that's a worthwhile attribute then you are welcome to maintain it.
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Post by Stan on Aug 10, 2009 14:18:57 GMT
I don't really have a lot of spare time, I just make the most of what I have. I'm quite busy. In addition to this project I have a horde of others, work full time, have a wife, have a huge PhD test coming up in the fall, have Russian tutoring every week, translating work, and now my dissertation, which takes forever. So I don't really have a lot of free time, and a big portion of what I have is spent studying this stuff. Just because my background thing is all you've seen doesn't mean it's all I've done.
Anyway, yeah, I do think some of it can be cut and shortened, and I've been doing that here and there when I figure out how I want to arrange things. No problem in shortening it. I like any criticism you give, it's fine, I don't have any problem with that. I never said your tutorial had any problems except for two main ones. One, it's written primarily for people who at least have a decent grasp of the concepts. Two, it's not finished.
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Post by Maxim on Aug 10, 2009 15:10:25 GMT
1. I personally don;t believe that Z80 assembler is a great first programming language. Having said that, I'm not sure what concepts I'm missing, so some details would be great. I've written "what is hex" a few times, I don't consider that to be something everyone should know in advance. 2. Yeah, I know.
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XOR
Cloud Master
Posts: 36
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Post by XOR on Aug 11, 2009 13:32:44 GMT
How is the next part of the tutorial going Stan? Maxim assembler isn't that difficult to grasp..I found learning C alot harder to learn years ago Adding another tutorial might be good max I really applaud www.nintendoage.com and mainly bunnyboy now that is a tutorial I think this is what stan wants to achive with his tutorials and thats a good thing Anyway on another note after studying and playing around with the VDP i got display working With a sprite,control,i even got some fixed point math working(gravity)..i'm lost for sound though How about a tutorial on that Maxim
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