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Post by Centrale on Jan 1, 2016 18:49:22 GMT
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Post by Centrale on Jan 1, 2016 18:56:31 GMT
If I had to guess at this point, I'd say the problem with some Sports Pads is accumulated oils from peoples' hands on the ball makes it slip without turning the shafts. Or maybe some lubricant needs to be applied to the points of rotation on the shafts occasionally.
Someone with a malfunctioning Sports Pad should open it up and take some pictures for comparison.
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Post by Rastanfarian on Jan 1, 2016 22:41:03 GMT
Great work Centrale! Should I come across one that doesn't work I will be sure to disassemble for further investigation. Seems as though some "simple maintenance" is all that is needed to keep it operational.
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Post by Maxim on Jan 2, 2016 19:48:48 GMT
Well, it clearly works the same as an old ball mouse so presumably it gets gummed up with mouse jam (dead skin and oil, yummy) and if you can't clean that up it will skip. Maybe all the bad ones need is a clean?
The spinning discs block light detectors and if the get stuff on them then the will cause insensitivity too.
The last missing piece is how the ball maintains grip on the spindles. It looks like plastic rather than rubber, and the spindles don't seem to have any grippy material on them. The diagonal piece is supposed to maintain some pressure, but it doesn't seem to have any spring? If the spindles are removable, maybe something could be added to enhance grip - I'm thinking some heat shrink tubing might work. Also, some grease on the attachment points would help.
We need pictures of a bad one to compare...
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Post by Stan on Jan 3, 2016 0:40:32 GMT
Wow I guess I never assumed how complex the damn thing was inside. Jesus...
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Post by Stoned_Roses on Jan 6, 2016 13:16:36 GMT
good read guys never had or used the sports pad
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Post by IrishNinja on Aug 20, 2016 5:37:55 GMT
always wanted to mess with one of these - isnt it Great Football that requires it?
also, OP that's the most awesome avatar i've seen in a while!
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Post by Stan on Aug 22, 2016 21:39:23 GMT
If I had to guess at this point, I'd say the problem with some Sports Pads is accumulated oils from peoples' hands on the ball makes it slip without turning the shafts. Or maybe some lubricant needs to be applied to the points of rotation on the shafts occasionally. Someone with a malfunctioning Sports Pad should open it up and take some pictures for comparison. The most likely problem has nothing to do with that. It has to do with how much friction the ball is placing against those bars. Simply put, not enough. It would need to be very tight to keep the sensitivity good, like I've seen with other trackballs, where the ball is usually in a special holder type thing to make sure this occurs. This one is actually set up very similar to the Atari 5200 trackball, also with horrible sensitivity.
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Post by Centrale on Aug 23, 2016 15:12:30 GMT
The most likely problem has nothing to do with that. It has to do with how much friction the ball is placing against those bars. Simply put, not enough. It would need to be very tight to keep the sensitivity good, like I've seen with other trackballs, where the ball is usually in a special holder type thing to make sure this occurs. This one is actually set up very similar to the Atari 5200 trackball, also with horrible sensitivity. You could be right, Stan, but since there's apparently no one in the entire world of SMS enthusiasts who is willing to open their malfunctioning Sports Pad and take some pictures, how will we ever know for sure? If your theory is correct, then we should be able to establish what happened to make Sports Pad change from sensitive to not-sensitive (did people get frustrated with the poor responsiveness of Sports Pad Football and exert too much downward pressure, bending the plastic supports that hold the metal cylinders?), and possibly come up with mods to restore proper functionality.
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Post by Stan on Aug 23, 2016 17:19:44 GMT
You could be right, Stan, but since there's apparently no one in the entire world of SMS enthusiasts who is willing to open their malfunctioning Sports Pad and take some pictures, how will we ever know for sure? If your theory is correct, then we should be able to establish what happened to make Sports Pad change from sensitive to not-sensitive (did people get frustrated with the poor responsiveness of Sports Pad Football and exert too much downward pressure, bending the plastic supports that hold the metal cylinders?), and possibly come up with mods to restore proper functionality. There's nothing to really take pictures of, I could open mine but you wouldn't see anything special. It's the basic design that's faulty, in fact John Sauer and Steve Hanawa, when I talked to them about it, said what I expected, it wasn't fluid enough and failed on the market for that reason primarily. As for modding, that might be possible, but you'd be better off just finding a way to mod a more functional trackball I'd think.
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Post by Maxim on Aug 23, 2016 18:33:03 GMT
I think the sensitivity is probably fine (the disc notches are pretty huge by ball mouse standards, but we aren't aiming for 4000dpi here), it's simply the lack of friction. If you can open yours up and observe ball/roller slippage, that'd help. Then try adding to the grip (or tension) and see what happens. Making a device to emulate the sports pad from a USB device (mouse or trackball) would be interesting, but maybe not super useful given the quality of the games supporting it. Centrale, can you cover the options available? I guess from the game manuals that the sports pad has a D-pad emulation mode ("Control" vs "Sports"), which is I guess what you reviewed above. How does it work? Is it triggering the direction based on some minimum speed, or does the speed you roll the ball affect the result? What does the "dots" switch do? Is it a sensitivity setting?
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Post by Centrale on Aug 24, 2016 1:51:08 GMT
Centrale, can you cover the options available? I guess from the game manuals that the sports pad has a D-pad emulation mode ("Control" vs "Sports"), which is I guess what you reviewed above. How does it work? Is it triggering the direction based on some minimum speed, or does the speed you roll the ball affect the result? What does the "dots" switch do? Is it a sensitivity setting? The speed you roll the ball affects the resulting motion of your avatar. Thus, you can move at variable speeds - from very slowly, a pixel at a time, up to the maximum speed allowed by the game. It also allows you to move at seemingly any angle... even though it's sending a digital input, I think the fact that it's basically transmitting something like "up, null, up, null, left, null, up, null, up, up, left, up, up, up, left..." 60 times per second makes it so that the character can move diagonally at angles and speeds that normally wouldn't be possible on a d-pad. Very helpful when enemies can fire at any angle toward the player as in Time Soldiers, and when collecting scattered items like the P capsules in Power Strike and the coins the bosses drop in Fantasy Zone. The "dots" switch is for turning rapid fire on and off for the buttons; it doesn't affect the trackball. One thing about the Sports Pad is that it won't continue rolling for very long once you stop pushing it. It could be due to the lubricant needing to be cleaned off and replaced, or maybe the ball just isn't heavy enough. However, it's often helpful that the ball isn't heavy and it doesn't continue rolling. If you're playing Power Strike, you can just use a very light touch and very subtle movements. There's nothing to really take pictures of, I could open mine but you wouldn't see anything special. It's the basic design that's faulty, in fact John Sauer and Steve Hanawa, when I talked to them about it, said what I expected, it wasn't fluid enough and failed on the market for that reason primarily. As for modding, that might be possible, but you'd be better off just finding a way to mod a more functional trackball I'd think. I dunno, that isn't really an explanation of a process of losing sensitivity over time, and my experience with one in good condition isn't that it's faulty. If it degrades over time, that would be interesting, but I'm not likely to use it roughly like I might have as a kid. I think the sports games that utilized its analog capabilities just weren't balanced well in a programming/design sense, causing it to have to be used with great exertion.
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Post by Stan on Aug 24, 2016 13:01:12 GMT
I think the sensitivity is probably fine (the disc notches are pretty huge by ball mouse standards, but we aren't aiming for 4000dpi here), it's simply the lack of friction. If you can open yours up and observe ball/roller slippage, that'd help. Then try adding to the grip (or tension) and see what happens. Thanks Maxim, that's what I was trying to say.
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Post by Stan on Aug 24, 2016 13:04:20 GMT
I dunno, that isn't really an explanation of a process of losing sensitivity over time, and my experience with one in good condition isn't that it's faulty. If it degrades over time, that would be interesting, but I'm not likely to use it roughly like I might have as a kid. I think the sports games that utilized its analog capabilities just weren't balanced well in a programming/design sense, causing it to have to be used with great exertion. Any controller loses sensitivity over time just from general use, typically the effect of hand oils, dirt, and misuse. As Maxim said above, the issue is the amount of friction, it wasn't designed properly, and, as you said, the games made for it weren't programmed well, but I don't know if it would have been possible for them to foresee this lack of friction. I assume all they could have done, if they knew, was to increase the sensitivity of the device to account for the lack of friction. In addition, they just localized it as it was, they didn't do much to it. I mean Sports Pad Football is just an altered game, and poorly at that.
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Phil
Sonic the Hedgehog
Posts: 2,192
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Post by Phil on Aug 31, 2016 13:37:51 GMT
It's a shame only one true sports pad game exists, Great Ice Hockey. I don't get why you would buy Sport Pad Football back in the day and be limited to the sports pad. Buy Great Football and you can play it with the sports pad or any other controller which is a much better idea!!! I guess people didn't realize it was the same game, Sega were a bit sneaky with that, in an attempt to flog more of the crappy units.
I don't know if the Japanese version works better being smaller and less cumbersome. Is the size of the ball smaller with that version?
I own 3 and they work for about 10 minutes and then just stop working without you having severe arm ache.
Poor design and construction, I wish they had released the paddle control rather than this travesty...
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