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Post by Bock on Feb 29, 2008 21:38:23 GMT
Hexadecimal in Google: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HexadecimalBinary in Google: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_systemThe dev section was quite active in the past years AFAIK: www.smspower.org/dev/docs/wiki/I wasn't referring to talking in caps I was referring to the words themselves, "everything", sounds like you have no realistic idea of how to make a game and I'd rather see you realistic and succeed. What page with "controller code" ? www.smspower.org/dev/docs/wiki/InputAndOutput/PeripheralPorts ? Again I'm pretty puzzled on the fact that you are criticizing our knowledge base and system and yet you never asked any question or attempted to discuss about it before (as I recall, or maybe you did to some other guys privately). If you want to do tutorials where people won't have to ask questions and use their brain maybe you should write their requested SMS game directly, it would make thing EASIER for them. I'll do that Hang On thing shortly. Thinking about it, it looks like a decent way to get people to understand the hardware by first studying the data formats and video systems by tweaking games.
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Post by grolt on Mar 1, 2008 1:38:32 GMT
A fresh perspective on subject matter is always a good thing. Bock, you seem to be turning this into an us against them scenario. It doesn't need to be that at all. Stan's work here will only help further the knowledge base, so all the more power to him. Will we ever be able to eclipse your fine work in the field? No. But we'll definitely have fun with 'reality'.
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Post by Stan on Mar 1, 2008 3:18:15 GMT
Yeah, totally, no harm intended. I've seen what you guys have done and it's nice. I was referring to this by the way: www.smspower.org/dev/sdsc/SMSGGProgrammersGuide.htmlWhen I say everything, of course there are going to be things the users need to learn on their own, but for the most part they're going to learn piece by piece how to manipulate things, getting a character to move on screen, altering colors, shapes, etc. I thought it would be nice to show how to get little things moving instead of text that sits there or scrolls, something that actually shows you how a game functions. Perhaps a little stupid guy you move, hit a little stupid object and then manipulate the code to see why it works, how to screw it up and so forth, that's what I'm looking to do. Thanks for the links, but I'm still writing tutorials for it.
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Aypok
Sonic the Hedgehog
Posts: 2,372
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Post by Aypok on Mar 1, 2008 12:37:10 GMT
Bock makes a few good points, he mentioned some things I was thinking but didn't bother writing. One of his best points is about the C compiler for the SMS (something that didn't even cross my mind). Whilst I've never used it myself (I have no problem with C, I just prefer pure assembly for the SMS), C is a lot easier to teach.
The second point is that if people can't follow Maxim's tutorial, I honestly don't think they have a chance of getting anywhere. That sounds harsh, but it's not something you can just pick up and spend a few hours on.
I'm not trying to say you shouldn't do it, Stan - just pointing out that it may not be worth the effort... What I'd suggest is tutorials that follow on from Maxim's stuff; build on what he's done and move on to something like sprites and how to handle them.
That's something I was originally wanting to do myself, but didn't bother for two reasons: 1) I know from experience that writing such things take a lot of effort, and 2) if they can't figure out where to go from there, there's little hope...
To anyone who truely wants to learn to code for the SMS: take a good read through the existing tutorials on SMS Power! - you may have to read through bits more than once, that's fine. If you get stuck, ask questions (SMS Power! would be the ideal place, but you may get some useful answers here).
If you still don't "get" it, try something else... Coding isn't for everyone. Not everyone can paint brilliant pictures, not everyone can create great music, not everyone can understand coding.
EDIT: That sounds like I'm trying to put people off coding, which isn't true; I'd really like to see more coders for the SMS and the new games and demos they create. I'm merely saying I don't think people know how much effort is involved in getting even a simple thing to work. If anyone has questions about it, I'd be more than happy to answer - but, while my knowledge of SMS coding is "reasonable", the guys over at SMS Power! are by far the best ones to talk to.
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Post by playgeneration on Mar 1, 2008 12:58:16 GMT
I do think Smspower could be a bit better organised, for example where is the C compiler? Is there any info on how to use it either?
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Post by Bock on Mar 1, 2008 13:25:58 GMT
Playgeneration: yes indeed we are poorly organised, nobody have (had) the time to update everything. In fact, apart from the Wiki pages, the static pages are quite lagging in term of update. Many things, C compiler included, are only mentionned in forum posts. Check out Haroldhoop posts.
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Aypok
Sonic the Hedgehog
Posts: 2,372
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Post by Aypok on Mar 1, 2008 14:00:12 GMT
I do think Smspower could be a bit better organised, for example where is the C compiler? Is there any info on how to use it either? I haven't seem any info on how to use it, no - then again, I haven't looked. I was suggesting that the tutorials should be written around that, creating the info on how to use it. :) Not that you'd need much knowledge to use it, I expect; a basic understanding of C should be enough. The more I think about it, the better the idea of basing this stuff on C is sounding: it'd be easier to get stuff working, so people trying it would enjoy it more and get in to it. Then, if they wanted, they could move on to using assembly, since they'd be much more able to tackle something like that. I know, I know; why don't I write it? :) If I had more time, I'd love to.
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Post by Stan on Mar 2, 2008 18:55:18 GMT
I know what you're saying, but let's see what comes out of this as Scott helps me. Getting an actual programmer to work with to write these tutorials might make it pretty damn good. We'll see what happens. And I know, it's NOT easy, but it's also not going to seem any easier when it feels impossible to just navigate a site where there's supposedly information, finding tons of gaps that haven't been updated in years and wading around trying to find where to start. If you can't handle learning the code and such, fine, but at least put it together in a way that at least gives someone the potential to learn. It must have taken me a few hours to find anything I was looking for on there, but yeah, we're all pressed for time. Again, I think Maxim's tutorial IS good, I just think some things need explained more slowly and code worked with in a slower fashion. We'll see how it goes.
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Peder Johnsen
Alis
Slowly completing my sega collection as well as developing Collect Media!
Posts: 408
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Post by Peder Johnsen on Mar 3, 2008 0:46:30 GMT
I say go for it! Id love to see it and use it! I myself went through Maxims tutorial and finished it (years ago, all forgotten now ) And also found it a bit "hard to understand". Infact, I dont understand why Bock say that people that dont understand Maxims tutorial shouldent bother to learn how to do sms programming.. I mean, we all have to start at the bottom to get to the top. Just cause people dont understand it now doesnt mean Stan or anyone else cant make a tutorial for us to do. I am looking forward to start reading Stans tutorials and maybe one day I will make a SMS game. Though I will probably stick to making PC games instead... Peder Johnsen.
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Aypok
Sonic the Hedgehog
Posts: 2,372
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Post by Aypok on Mar 3, 2008 9:48:19 GMT
Infact, I dont understand why Bock say that people that dont understand Maxims tutorial shouldent bother to learn how to do sms programming.. I mean, we all have to start at the bottom to get to the top. Just cause people dont understand it now doesnt mean Stan or anyone else cant make a tutorial for us to do. I know you weren't replying to me, but I raised the same point, so will respond anyway. :) What I meant was that if people are serious about coding (or anything, for that matter), they will put in the time and effort to learn it. Maxim's tutorials are good enough to get the basics - if people find bits missing, they can ask on the forum. Admittedly the tutorials only cover the basics and don't tell the reader where to go next (which I agree should be corrected), but it's not hard to visit the SMS Power! forums and search. Sure, it's not the best solution (ideally, their wiki would have all the info), but if people can't search a forum, what hope do they have of understanding the hardware? It may seem like a stupid point (I can see my argument from the other side), but I've seen lots of people try to get in to coding over the years. The only people who succeeded are those who went out and actively looked for answers on their own - and the answers are out there. Again, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from trying -- I'm sure there are several people here who could benefit from such things -- I'm simply suggesting that it may be a better course of action to improve upon what's already there. Anyhoo, if this series of tutorials turns out to be the best thing the site has ever done and gets a load of you coding, that'd be awesome; I'd happily eat my words. :)
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Post by Stan on Mar 3, 2008 15:12:08 GMT
It would be nice to see, but I do agree, it all comes down to if you actually want to put time into it. Honestly though, nothing on that site really gave me any clue that I should be going to the forum to ask, especially if you do glance at it and just starting out, see threads about stuff you don't even have the slightest clue about makes you kind of hesitant to make yourself look like an idiot. And yes, the information is out there, how else would I have figured out what I have? I just want it all there for people so if they really want to try it or at least want to learn about it, terms, what things mean, how things work, great. It would be awesome to see more people involved in getting some sort of development and projects going, but at least I want to provide for people an easier to navigate knowledge base with everything there. Anyway, yeah, we'll see what happens, Scott's a busy man but the fact that he agreed to do this is awesome, I didn't think he'd really want to do more than look at a few things, but I suppose it takes him back. I'm still going to put up binary and hex because I think it's necessary. If this is going to read more like a textbook for an actual course you need to arrange it how it usually is, and those are typically the first two things covered.
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Aypok
Sonic the Hedgehog
Posts: 2,372
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Post by Aypok on Mar 3, 2008 15:24:39 GMT
Yeah, fair enough. I'll stop poo-pooing your efforts and let you guys get on with it.
I still think it's good that you're attempting it, though, and look forward reading it. I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to the SMS, so I may manage to learn a few things. :)
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Post by Stan on Mar 29, 2008 21:10:44 GMT
Well, just a few things to tweak on the binary tutorial. Need to get the opening GIF nice looking, for some reason when saved it got all grainy, even through an awesome program. Might need a batch converter. Otherwise, it's ready to go.
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Post by Stan on Apr 12, 2008 15:11:22 GMT
Alright, it's all done, I can't post it here though because Andy has to upload it to the main site. He never showed me how to do that in asp so I have to wait for him. Up soon and I move on!
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Post by Stan on Apr 24, 2008 15:44:59 GMT
Well, Andy's pretty busy now so for the moment I've uploaded the shite to the articles section. Here's the 'main page' as it will look in the future once he gets a chance to organize things. It's not even a proper programming page yet, and I know a few people thought this was unnecessary, but I did the binary tutorial anyway. After finishing the hex tutorial we'll get into more important matters, but I feel it's necessary. Anyway, check it out: www.smstributes.co.uk/view_article.asp?articleid=40
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