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Post by englishinvader on Mar 5, 2016 13:06:52 GMT
About six weeks ago, I was thinking of branching out to NES/Famicom imports and made a few enquiries about NTSC NES hardware and getting it to run on a UK television and it actually poses quite a few problems:
- NES hardware doesn't support a mod for 60Hz (which rules out modding a PAL system) - the NES RGB mod is very expensive (even if you're able to do it yourself) and RGB is the only way to successfully run a native NTSC system on a PAL television; by contrast, the Super Famicom is a lot easier to branch out to because it supports RGB output off the bat - that leaves clone consoles which leads to an entirely different set of issues
Then I started thinking about how lucky I was to live in a country where the SMS outsold the NES 4:1. A standard PAL Master System will play most games in the SMS/SG-1000 library without issue - a £15 SMS2 and a £60 Master Everdrive and you're pretty much sorted.
Game for game, virtually every killer app on the NES is covered in some way on the SMS:
Castlevania - Master of Darkness Super Mario - Alex Kidd, Psycho Fox, Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Wonderboy, Sonic the Hedgehog Zelda - Phantasy Star, Golden Axe Warrior
Don't know if I'll ever branch out to NES imports beyond emulation but, for now, I'm having a lot of fun enjoying what the SMS has to offer.
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Post by stupidblunderblade on Mar 5, 2016 15:48:46 GMT
Do region bypass adapters exist in any useful capacity for the NES? Certainly, Japanese → Western adapters for the Master System seem fairly scarce, but at least Sega had the courtesy to make all western models of the SMS cross compatible, and the console has barely any Japanese exclusives anyway.
Considering how difficult it would appear to be in order to play import games for the NES (Thanks Nintendo, I'm sure region locking has had such a positive effect on gaming...), it does annoy me to hear people saying "The Master System has no games", when comparing it to the NES, considering it probably had a more expansive library than the NES in a lot of regions.
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Post by englishinvader on Mar 5, 2016 17:28:02 GMT
Do region bypass adapters exist in any useful capacity for the NES? Certainly, Japanese → Western adapters for the Master System seem fairly scarce, but at least Sega had the courtesy to make all western models of the SMS cross compatible, and the console has barely any Japanese exclusives anyway. Considering how difficult it would appear to be in order to play import games for the NES (Thanks Nintendo, I'm sure region locking has had such a positive effect on gaming...), it does annoy me to hear people saying "The Master System has no games", when comparing it to the NES, considering it probably had a more expansive library than the NES in a lot of regions. The NES region locking is done at hardware level through the 10NES chip. It can be disabled by clipping one of the pins as shown in this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3vL5TE0UQoThe main obstacle is that the games themselves are designed for a 60Hz refresh rate and there is no way to mod a PAL NES for 60Hz.
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Post by Transatlantic Foe on Mar 5, 2016 17:33:28 GMT
"SMS has no games" is the typical US-centric attitude that dominates the gaming media. Nintendo saving gaming with the NES, Wikipedia articles headed up as Genesis and TurboGrafx instead of the original (and arguably dominant) names. It all gets pretty tiring to see surprise that SMS games were released past 1991.
I've considered getting a Famicom because it has some exclusives over the NES, but it seems to cost an arm and a leg to get a decent one. And the Nintendo market seems to be the nuts end of retro gaming.
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Post by omegamax on Mar 6, 2016 2:40:54 GMT
Englishinvader you on here also mate,anyway the nes has a good library of quite good games as does the master system.Contra,LifeForce,GunSmoke just a few games the master system doesn't have the equivalent to.Unless I'm incorrect.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2016 11:25:07 GMT
Sagaia > Lifeforce
GunSmoke - Rambo, Mercs, Time Soldiers
Contra - terminator 1 & 2, earthworm jim
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Post by englishinvader on Mar 6, 2016 11:43:47 GMT
Englishinvader you on here also mate,anyway the nes has a good library of quite good games as does the master system.Contra,LifeForce,GunSmoke just a few games the master system doesn't have the equivalent to.Unless I'm incorrect. Indeed. I like the NES a lot as well. I just wish it was a bit more import-friendly. As far as I know, the SMS doesn't have anything like Contra but it's got shooters like The Ninja, Mercs, Alien Syndrome, Action Fighter, Transbot and R-Type that are similar to Lifeforce and Gunsmoke.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 7, 2016 0:58:56 GMT
Contra - terminator 1 & 2, earthworm jim I don't think you can't compare those games. Terminator 2 is complete crap and a joke. The other games lack the 2 Player Co-op Contra has and the series is just of a higher quality all around. I would go so far and say that there are only three genres where the Master System can easily compete with the NES on the same level: Jump & Run, Racing games and Light Gun Games. When it comes to racing games, the MS might even be better because outside of the two R.C. Pro-Am games there's nothing outstanding on the NES (Rad Racer is a joke compared to Out-Run) but other than that? The NES wipes the floor with the Master System in every other genre because it simply has a bigger library and a bigger third party support with most companies porting their classics onto the console.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 2:31:46 GMT
Lets be objective. Contra is a shooter plataform horizontal scrolling. The games that i claimed are close in genre (maybe T2 not). 2 PL co-op is just one feature that add funny but not change the style. This statment: "Nes has bigger library" is boring. Nesfanatic argument: the Nes has more titles bla-bla-bla. Titles like circus Charlie, city connection, Legend of Kage, etc... for me not have great significance. Moreover, englishinvader not ask about library numbers but alternatives to Nes titles. So not matter if Nes has 500 zeldas but is Golden Axe Warrior or Golvellius has the same joy.
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Post by Transatlantic Foe on Mar 8, 2016 18:22:35 GMT
Contra - terminator 1 & 2, earthworm jim I don't think you can't compare those games. Terminator 2 is complete crap and a joke. The other games lack the 2 Player Co-op Contra has and the series is just of a higher quality all around. I would go so far and say that there are only three genres where the Master System can easily compete with the NES on the same level: Jump & Run, Racing games and Light Gun Games. When it comes to racing games, the MS might even be better because outside of the two R.C. Pro-Am games there's nothing outstanding on the NES (Rad Racer is a joke compared to Out-Run) but other than that? The NES wipes the floor with the Master System in every other genre because it simply has a bigger library and a bigger third party support with most companies porting their classics onto the console. I'd argue the SMS also competes with the NES on the sports and shoot 'em up front. For shooters, the NES got some horrible arcade ports (1942, Flying Shark) that aren't even Bomber Raid quality. But for every Gradius there's R-Type and Sagaia. For Zanac, Power Strike. On sports, the SMS has a load of football and athletics-style games - and Speedball. I don't know how many RPGs the NES got either, so is it slim pickings for both consoles? I guess if you include the Famicom the SMS gets hammered. What's left? If you separate out platform into trad platformers, hack and slash, and platform shooter, the SMS probably loses the latter two but wins the former. Do either systems have a big library of beat 'em ups or fighting games?
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 9, 2016 11:11:40 GMT
I'd argue the SMS also competes with the NES on the sports I would say that the Master System gets demolished there. When it comes to Golf the Master System is able to compete but in other sports? Ice Hockey? Boxing? Basketball? The Master System doesn't even have a proper Basketball game, Basketball Nightmare is mediocre, "Great" Basketball just like the whole Great series is a joke. The NES offers at least with Double Dribble and Tecmo NBA Basketball two decent ones. Same with Ice Hockey, would you say Championship Hockey is on the same level as Blades of Steel? Slap Shot vs. Ice Hockey? Take Boxing, in my oppinion none of the MS Boxing games has the fun factor of Punch-Out. On Top of that the NES features sports types you won't find on the Master System, like Dodgeball (Super Dodgeball), Beach Volleyball (King of the Beach) or over the top Winter sports (Ski or Die) and shoot 'em up front. For shooters, the NES got some horrible arcade ports (1942, Flying Shark) that aren't even Bomber Raid quality. But for every Gradius there's R-Type and Sagaia. For Zanac, Power Strike. NES again just has a ton of them: 1943, Zanac, Gradius 1 & 2, Parodius, Xevious & Super Xevious, Defender 1 & 2, Lifeforce, S.C.A.T., Image Fight, Gun-Nac and two great genre hybrids: The Guardian Legend and Xexyz (And that's without the great japan only shmups like Summer Carnival '92: Recca, Crisis Force and of course the TwinBee series (the second one was released as Stinger outside Japan) I don't know how many RPGs the NES got either, so is it slim pickings for both consoles? I guess if you include the Famicom the SMS gets hammered. RPGs that got released outside of Japan: Crystalis, Faxanadu, Dragon Warrior (Dragon Quest), Ys II, Final Fantasy (the first one was released outside Japan albeit in a heavily censored and changed version), Magic of Sheherazade, Pool of Radiance, Wizardry, The Bards Tale 1 & 2, Ultima IV and Hydlide. I don't see a comparison here, the Master System only has 4 RPGs: Phantasy Star, Ys, Ultima IV and Miracle Warriors What's left? If you separate out platform into trad platformers, hack and slash, and platform shooter, the SMS probably loses the latter two but wins the former. There are a ton of niche-genres, like Board Games (MS has Trivial Pursuit and Monopoly, the NES has Monopoly, North & South, Anticipation, Othello, Battleship), Pinball (NES has Pinbot, High Speed, Pinball, Pinball Quest, the MS has the shitty Pinball table in Casino Games) or Tycoon-like games like M.U.L.E. and Wallstreet Kid. In the Puzzle genre the NES also has a lot more to offer: Tetris, Dr. Mario, Wario's Woods, Yoshi Cookie, Puzznic, Pipe Mania and Lemmings. The Master System has Columns, Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine and Lemmings. Or Adventure: The Master System has King's Quest as it's sole Adventure game. The NES has Maniac Mansion, Nightshade, Shadowgate, Uninvited, Solstice, Déjà Vu and Action Adventure like the Golgo 13 series, Dr. Chaos and the Startropics games. Do either systems have a big library of beat 'em ups or fighting games? I think both consoles are pretty good when it comes to Sidescrolling Beat 'em Ups. The Master System has Streets of Rage 1 & 2, Vigilante, Renegade, My Hero, Kung Fu Kid, Double Dragon, Terminator 2, Black Belt and i guess Running Battle can be counted too. NES has the Double Dragon series, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series, the Battletoads series, River City Ransom, Mighty Final Fight, Street Fighter 2010, Last Ninja 2, Shadow of the Ninja, Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu and a lot more but i limit it to the good ones. The Master System might actually wins when it comes to versus fighters. It has Virtua Fighter Animation, Master of Combat, Mortal Kombat 1 - 3, Pit-Fighter and Street Fighter II, altough they basically all are very bad. I think the NES only got Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Tournament Fighters and i guess the ancient Karateka can be counted.
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Post by retrokevretro on Mar 9, 2016 12:26:51 GMT
I think it's widely accepted that Nintendo had the wider library of games due to the fact that they tied third party developers into producing games exclusively for the NES. Yet Sega not only survived the bully boy tactics of Nintendo but in certain parts of the world (Europe, Australia & later under licence in South America) thrived and I guess that's why some 30 years on there is such a following for the underdog of the video gaming world that is our beloved Master System.
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Post by Transatlantic Foe on Mar 9, 2016 18:05:41 GMT
I'd quote but it's a pain in the backside on mobile!
Shooter-wise I still think the NES only wins over if you include Famicom titles. The NES only really benefits from having Konami on board in the form of some big names (the other big arcade names are generally poorly done, aside from Twin Cobra). The SMS still has plenty and probably more variety. I can't think of any real stinkers on the SMS apart from Bomber Raid... even that has its fans (and I guess Aerial Assault counts if you're not playing it on hard)
Sports - ice hockey and basketball may be poorly represented but you have golf, football, Speedball, Olympics, California Games... it's a strong enough lineup to compete.
I still don't think the SMS overall is beaten in quality , probably not until you include Japanese releases - both consoles have a variety of high points. Sure the NES has more games but quantity isn't quality - it has a number of big names that get shouted out louder thanks to the US bias in retro gaming. That Mario/Zelda/Metroid remained relevant post-NES helped too, Sega didn't really develop any of their franchises successfully (unless you count Sonic which has been generally awful since Sonic 3 but at least still going) so earlier gems are oft forgotten.
How many games that show up on both consoles are clearly superior on one or the other (without being a different game)?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 19:52:08 GMT
I dont guess Great Volley a joke. The system is complex but is more closiest of a real Volley match.
Sports games not are only Hockey, Boxing and Basketball. You dont mentioned Baseball games. Football games.
And soccer games? The SMS have more Soccer titles than Nes which is a shame. (super ultra larger library). And Tennis? Any decente title? Master system have Tennis ace and wimbledom games. And Olympic games? And F1 games?
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Post by omegamax on Mar 9, 2016 23:12:51 GMT
It makes sense the master system would have more soccer titles as soccer is a large sport in Europe.
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