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Post by ryanretro on Aug 11, 2015 15:54:58 GMT
Hi all, Basically I'm wondering if reproduction games have reached the point that it's now impossible tell the difference between the real deal.
I own over 150 master system games and i'm reaching the point that I now have to spend the larger sums to get the more desirable titles.
I'm happy to pay but also worried about getting my fingers burned.
For example Smurfs 2, I've noticed an Italian seller sell between 1-2 new and sealed copies each week for the last 3 months at £250 each.
Each time a copy sells another new and sealed game is listed within a few days. It seems like an unlimited supply of an incredibly rare game.
I watched a youtube video recently from a big collector who had bought a smurfs 2 new and sealed, It had the halifax distribution label and hologram on the back.
The manual was awful and gave it away as a reproduction, but the cartridge appeared unaltered. Had the manual been better the average person like me would have found it impossible to spot the difference.
So is their a definitive way to spot a reproduction or is it best to stick with emulators for the more rare games.
Any thoughts / advise much appreciated.
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Post by Maxim on Aug 11, 2015 16:30:21 GMT
The cartridge contents are easily checked for reproductions, they haven't got far enough to look like factory-produced mask ROMs, more so for carts originally with integrated mappers. There's probably some clues in the edge connector when comparing them. You can also check the screws for chips in the paint.
The case inlays are never as good as the original, the silver paint is rarely present and you could look at the printing pattern with a magnifying glass. Reproduction manuals usually don't have the original "purple ink on hard toilet paper" feel.
None of this is easy to check on an eBay auction, though.
As for the Italian seller - he just has a big box of genuine original Smurfs 2 to sell. There's photos of it around. He sells them slowly to avoid lowering the price.
To avoid getting your fingers burnt, buy from reputable collectors outside of eBay, and value dirty/incomplete games - they're less likely to be fake.
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Post by ryanretro on Aug 11, 2015 17:47:34 GMT
Hi thanks maxim, yeah I think unless you have the knowledge looking for heavily used games is the way to go. Just on the point of the cartridge contents if anyone could look at this link,, around 20:42 the guy posts some pics. can any of you see anything obvious. www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCBXbEMWBO0&spfreload=10To test the water I purchased a new and sealed wolfchild from Italy which arrived today, its the Australian version. The manual is just a single large sheet which has been folded several times, also the screws are plain silver metal. Maybe thats how the Australian games are. I actually fully support repros if advertised as such, but it def is a potential minefield.
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Post by Maxim on Aug 11, 2015 18:57:55 GMT
That's a repro.
1. There are two chips in the cart - very few games had this. The upper chip is the mapper, which is what allows this cart to be used for a repro. 2. The bottom chip has no MPR marking. All Sega games have a number like MPR-12345 on the ROM chip. 3. The soldering on the lower chip doesn't match the upper one, plus there are signs of where the original ROM was removed around where the solder mask looks uneven, due to the effect of the heat and solder flux. 4. The EPROM is marked AT27C040. Google that, it's an EPROM (programmable chip). Sega never used these. 5. The EPROM is also marked 1435, that means it was manufactured in week 35 of 2014.
Looking elsewhere in the video:
- Shrink wrap was rare for SMS games and would have aged very badly in 20 years anyway. I don't think legit Smurfs 2s have it. - The box inlay is badly cropped and cut. Real labels had overprint so you wouldn't get the white fringe. - The cart label is even worse. It looks like it was cut out with scissors. - The staples in the manual are not like any game I've ever seen. - The manual paper seems wrong, too much bleed through - Page 8 has a weird black shadow on the right, odd for a single-colour blue print - The label on the back of the cart is really shoddy
Well, the guy in the video covers most of that anyway. It's odd that they tried so hard - I presume by buying a real one and doing high-quality copies of the printed materials and even the hologram - but were half-assed in a few placed.
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Post by bkk on Aug 11, 2015 20:16:47 GMT
There's a lot of "New old stock" SMS games with the Halifax stickers on Ebay Italia. Here's an example; €9.99. It looks like these were used to create repros with new cases with Halifax stickers and new cart shells, probably new catalogues too. That's why these all look fine in the fake, but it's let down by the Smurfs 2 specific items that they had to reproduce. Edit: The funny thing is that they seem to have reproduced it to look the same as the older game (with catalogue, hologram, and shrink wrap), whilst the legit game from several years later doesn't seem to have had any of those.
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Post by rupert on Aug 11, 2015 22:31:31 GMT
There's a lot of "New old stock" SMS games with the Halifax stickers on Ebay Italia. Here's an example; €9.99. It looks like these were used to create repros with new cases with Halifax stickers and new cart shells, probably new catalogues too. That's why these all look fine in the fake, but it's let down by the Smurfs 2 specific items that they had to reproduce. Edit: The funny thing is that they seem to have reproduced it to look the same as the older game (with catalogue, hologram, and shrink wrap), whilst the legit game from several years later doesn't seem to have had any of those. I just posted the same thing on his video before I read your comment here. Yes clearly using common game boxes with the Halifax sticker already on. The cover looks fairly poor to me too, poster, manual and cart stickers are all bad. I think though that there could be a few collectors fooled by this if they keep it shrink wrapped ?
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Post by ddevilfingers on Aug 12, 2015 5:19:12 GMT
To test the water I purchased a new and sealed wolfchild from Italy which arrived today, its the Australian version. The manual is just a single large sheet which has been folded several times, also the screws are plain silver metal. Maybe thats how the Australian games are. Yep that's how Australian/Ozisoft games are. There's the differences outlined here if it' something that interests you - shinobiman.proboards.com/thread/8250I bought one of these sealed Wolfchild games quite a few years ago (how many does this guy have I wonder) though I've not unwrapped mine to look any closer.
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Post by flatapex on Aug 12, 2015 8:07:15 GMT
did he mention how much he paid for it?
That manual was rubbish I could probably do better than that (having said that I cannot solder to save my life and all the cart stuff is beyond me
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Post by retrokevretro on Aug 12, 2015 9:30:12 GMT
Back to your question on whether or not to go down the Repro route my advice would be to stick to original Sega products wherever possible. I know this can be expensive but the official stuff keeps and can even increase in value over time so it's not like you will lose your investment. With the Repro stuff on the other hand your only going to lose money because there is the prospect of massive quantities being produced driving down the prices. That being said if there wasn't an original Sega game made then I'm a big fan of Repro games (Yie Ar Kung Fu for instance, love that game)
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Post by flatapex on Aug 12, 2015 9:39:22 GMT
Kev's advice is spot on, I sold off some stuff recently and made money on everything despite having owned the stuff for only 2 years. I didn't resort to ebay and I received compliments on what good value for money my stuff was
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lorf
Alis
Enduro Racer is the best game ever made for the SMS.
Posts: 384
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Post by lorf on Aug 12, 2015 10:14:32 GMT
Back to your question on whether or not to go down the Repro route my advice would be to stick to original Sega products wherever possible. I know this can be expensive but the official stuff keeps and can even increase in value over time so it's not like you will lose your investment. With the Repro stuff on the other hand your only going to lose money because there is the prospect of massive quantities being produced driving down the prices. That being said if there wasn't an original Sega game made then I'm a big fan of Repro games (Yie Ar Kung Fu for instance, love that game) Most seem to be around the £30 mark on eBay these days, I know it's not an easy thing to create judging from threads I've read all over so to me I think it's a fair price. I've bought a few myself over the years even some MS ones recently none of which have failed. So unless you are forking out hundreds of pounds for one you aren't going to lose much!
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Post by retrokevretro on Aug 12, 2015 19:06:44 GMT
Very true but I think demand is always going to be much higher for original / licensed games (There not making them anymore) which will keep prices high and the quality of the repros (In terms of labelling, inserts and in some cass manuals) is starting to really improve which could de-value existing repros
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Post by ryanretro on Aug 12, 2015 19:44:48 GMT
Hey guy's loads off great info here, I'm defiantly more confident about what I'm looking for now. Yeah basically I intend to get a full and complete pal set, I'm at 153 currently. Yeah I'm happy to pay if the quality is their, I've actually managed to pick up a really nice boxed wondermega this week. Would any off you folks have experience with playing Japanese consoles in the uk. The seller assures me that my megadrive 2 power supply will work fine but I'm kinda worried he is wrong and I will fry it.
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Phil
Sonic the Hedgehog
Posts: 2,192
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Post by Phil on Aug 17, 2015 17:24:13 GMT
Hi all I just opened my sealed WolfChild which has the Halifax sticker on it. It's the Ozisoft version with a foldout manual which is just in English and 2 warranty cards The box text is in multiple languages though - is this legit? Edit: I also opened my copy of Mercs which also appears to be an Ozisoft game. I have a Power Strike 2 which has a folded manual and with the dark red label, I think they are all legit. The boxes and inlays are mint, so don't think they are fake....the inlays are slightly smaller though so you notice a bit of a gap at the bottom of the box. The seller should advertise them as Ozisoft versions with just the English manual though. It deceives you into thinking you're getting more of a bargain than you are maybe!!! I got them bought by an Ex so it's good my money didn't go to waste!!! www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCS-Sega-Master-System-EUROPEAN-VERSION-PAL-AU-NEW-SEALED-NEU-NEUF-NUEVO-RARE-/221467801611?clk_rvr_id=886131098933&rmvSB=true
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Post by rupert on Aug 17, 2015 18:10:16 GMT
Hi all I just opened my sealed WolfChild which has the Halifax sticker on it. It's the Ozisoft version with a foldout manual which is just in English and 2 warranty cards The box text is in multiple languages though - is this legit? Edit: I also opened my copy of Mercs which also appears to be an Ozisoft game. I have a Power Strike 2 which has a folded manual and with the dark red label, I think they are all legit. The boxes and inlays are mint, so don't think they are fake....the inlays are slightly smaller though so you notice a bit of a gap at the bottom of the box. The seller should advertise them as Ozisoft versions with just the English manual though. It deceives you into thinking you're getting more of a bargain than you are maybe!!! I got them bought by an Ex so it's good my money didn't go to waste!!! www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCS-Sega-Master-System-EUROPEAN-VERSION-PAL-AU-NEW-SEALED-NEU-NEUF-NUEVO-RARE-/221467801611?clk_rvr_id=886131098933&rmvSB=trueIt's possible that Halifax got some Australian left over stock, i'm not sure most casual collectors would realise the box is a bit smaller - as if they are sealed the rest of the differences wouldnt be known. Just my guess is the seller doesnt realise these are Ozisoft.
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